Veiger Fix

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TenToedPete1

Adjudicator

08-02-2009

his Q skill, while a really short cooldown doesnt seem to pack quite the punch it should imo. im not able to play at the moment so cannot better test, but the AP ratio for it is less than one, probably like 0.8:1 or something like that. with the low base damage (250-280?) at max rank, you really need to get a lot of AP for it to be as powerful as other casters basic nukes (annie's fireball, ryze's overload).

The side bonus of gaining AP per minion/champion kill is great on paper, but weak in reality unless the game can go for a long time, and you are either given a lot of farm time, or are lucky with champion kills. Ive found that in a regular game if i dont buy a little mana regeneration, i cannot farm much more than 20-30 or so AP, and if i buy some regeneration early (chalice in 2-3 minutes) i can get maybe 40-50. This is in a regular game that past 10-15 minutes im not really farming in lanes much. And from that experience, the money spent on buying the regeneration would be better spent on just buying AP.

So, as its not a very effective method of gaining AP, i actually feel it would be better to skip this ability
until you have to take it, as you can farm a lot better, and do better in team fights with maxed out cage/dark matter. As it really looks like the intended playstyle of him is to try and farm AP with his Q, it should probably be buffed. Better AP scaling on it, and slightly better AP gain off kills from it would be a decent start.


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MaxTea

Adjudicator

08-02-2009

I kind of like him the way he is and dont really think he needs a buff or change. Key too playing him well is too get mana regen items and only use his Ap attack and his normal attack (use that too harass). Whats cool about him is he can be built as a tank because after soulstealer you really dont need +ap items on him. In pro games ill roll around late game with a 3500 hp veiger with 300 or so ap, most of witch is due too Q spam. a good veiger can get +6 ap per creep wave if hes left there and his team dont clear out the wave. Only promblem I have is team mates farming on a lane where im AP farming


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Flaggro

Member

08-02-2009

I like Veigar. I recently had a game with him where I hit 600 ability power. As long as you're consistently farming AP with q, and you're careful about getting ganked, he can turn into a lategame powerhouse. He's like a caster-carry.

To everyone saying it's impossible to get more than 40 AP from q, you just need to treat him more like a long-term farmer. Once you level q all the way up, you gain 1 ability point every 5 seconds. 6-10 AP every minute is not unreasonable. I've done it in a lane. At that rate, you'll farm 150+ over the duration of a game. Supplement that with that ring that adds 25%, and his q skill becomes truly powerful.

Very effective imo. With the right items, he can pump out an 800+ dark matter every 10 seconds.


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Myll

Member

08-02-2009

I agree that Veigar has a lot of counter-intuitive elements and needs to be fixed.


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pandamine

Adjudicator

08-02-2009

You are NOT going to get 1 AP every 5 seconds past the laning stage unless you chose to stay the whole game in a lane (i.e. be of no help to the team) or you have a soraka in a lane.

The only other option is that you KS all champion kills with your low damage Q skill, which implies a lot of other things


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Garak

Member

08-02-2009

Veigar has a lot of great concepts in him and I want him to work. But there's a lot of counter-synergistic elements in his current incarnation.

He has two different spells that have an on-kill rider. Neither of these are his laning skill. This is a huge problem. You have two really awesome spells, but it's your third spell that your hero is designed around, and that third spell prevents you from using the two awesome ones. Basically every well-placed optimal use of meteor or his ult is 5 AP he didn't get, permanently (either one hero kill or 5 creep kill, rough estimate). I also suspect that 5 creep kill with net you enough cash to purchase way more than 5 AP, which means his defining feature is sub-optimal to use.

I'm fine with tactical decisions and slightly anti-synergistic heros taking some more thought to use. But Veigar really doesn't let you use very much of your character at all.


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Xiao

Senior Member

08-03-2009

I'd like to see his stun cage duration increased, and have people who remain inside (as opposed to running out and getting stunned) be silence for the duration. Also (and I'm not sure this isn't already the case) I'd like to see dark matter have a big enough aoe to hit the entire cage size, as well as along the edges to hit heroes that run out and get stunned. This could also be accomplished by shrinking the aoe of the cage?


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Village Idiot

Senior Member

08-03-2009

They should get rid of his useless +AP per attack for 8 seconds passive and replace it with perma +AP per kill, but either:

-Add a short cooldown timer after every activation

Or

-Make it so that the amount of +AP is different depending on the skill you use; +1 for his Q and R Skills, +0.5 for his Dark Matter.


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Flaggro

Member

08-03-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by pandamine View Post
You are NOT going to get 1 AP every 5 seconds past the laning stage unless you chose to stay the whole game in a lane (i.e. be of no help to the team) or you have a soraka in a lane.
That's pretty much the idea. He needs to lane for about 20 minutes. Yes, it means he doesn't participate often in ganks, but that's his role. He's basically a carry hero in caster form.

Play him as a carry, set wards up to prevent ganks, use teleport to refresh your mana and update items, and you'll be well-positioned lategame to be dropping enormously powerful dark matters in team fights.


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Stoph

Senior Member

08-03-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Village Idiot View Post
They should get rid of his useless +AP per attack for 8 seconds passive and replace it with perma +AP per kill, but either:
QFT, for any WoWheads out there, this is similar to the moonkins "meele to restore mana" passive ability. Why would a moonkin be meeleing? Why would Veiger be normal attacking a hero?

Maybe he gains AP per friendly champion around him? Maybe he gains AP per minute that goes by in the match? Or maybe he can ride a giant armored bear around and make movies with Nicole Kidman.