Ziggs: OP, UP, or BALANCED

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Ibram Gaunt

Member

02-02-2012

Tbh, I do way more damage with xerath than ziggs. Afaics he is balanced.


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Hyosun

Senior Member

02-02-2012

I'll have to see more, but at the moment I think he may a bit too strong.

The damage is ridiculous, the zoning potential is high, and his ability to farm is fantastic ( w/ blue ). And that ult.... I see no reason why you couldn't clear mid real quick with Q,W, head down to bot brush and nuke the living daylights out of bot for an easy kill or two.

on another topic... zoning ability. Great zoning ability is part of why Ori and Vlad both got nerfed. Though in essence Zigg's Q is a lot like Gragas barrel.

tl:dr High aoe damage and great burst + zoning ability... I think he'll get a small nerf.


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Ulstan

Senior Member

02-02-2012

I played him only once or twice and did terribly with him.

He kept showing up in my games and people did terribly with him.

There was ONE exception where one guy did quite well with him, but once we started focusing him as a priority he died quickly and easily.

I'm not too impressed with the champion power level but I love the champion look, feel, and design.


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Tiklmesilly

Senior Member

02-02-2012

IMO he is pretty balanced. what would make him perfect though would be add about 2 seconds CD to his "Q" at all ranks. reduce the CD on his "W" by about 5 seconds at rank 5 and lower the AP ratio on his "E" by about .1. It would be an over all nerf but would but him in a better place to consistently combo with "W", "E". and the potential dmg on "E" atm is kinda silly. a slight base dmg buff to "W" making it more appealing to lvl would also be nice


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JxC

Senior Member

02-02-2012

i think he needs small tweaks but that doesn't warrant a "OMG SO OP'D NERF HIM ASAP!!!!". his Q can use a little higher cd and his r can use maybe a little bit more delay. he's definitely pretty strong but not OP'd.


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Snackattack

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Member

02-02-2012

I feel I have to say Ziggs is OP. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE ziggs... I kind of wish he stayed the way he is now, but here is my reasoning of why that can't really happen.

So with high base damage AP champs, usually they have low AP scaling. This ultimatly gives them usually a strong early game, but makes them less item dependent and thus a weaker late game. The trademark champion example of this is leblanc. She is dependent on levels, and her base damage on all of her skills is very high. However if she had higher AP scaling, she would be #1 pick / ban every game. Another example for this is ahri. Her base damage on Q is 140 magic and 140 true damage, thats INSANE to have by level 9, essentially a 280 damage spammable nuke that does half true damage? Same goes for her W, and her ult, spammable, with pretty good base numbers. However, ahri's low scalings make her fall off late game damage wise compared to many other AP champs.

When you look at ziggs you notice his Q has a level 5 base of 255 damage... This is insanely high. Most champs that have a spammable ~250 base damage ability usually only have like one or 2 damage abilities, with high bases, but low scaling. But for damage focused champs, where all their abilities do some form of damage, they usually never get high base, and high scaling.

So Q is pretty good scaling with .65 damage per AP, so when you finish deathcap, you're probably at 300-400 AP (Assuming you have an ap item before hand) Making his Q do nearly / over 400 damage.

Now his E. Yes you take reduced damage from more mines... however the damage cap is base 840 damage at level 5 from mines, and the mines can do quite a lot when they can still do like 250 for the first, and 100 for every one after that (its .15 for additional hits from mines, and .3 for the first)

So really... if you just throw the mines on them, they will hit at least 4 generally (the 4-5 in the middle of the circle) which will end up being around 250+3x100, so like another 500 damage ability.

W Does do decent damage actually, best used for an escape mechanism, even so just putting this sort of escape mechanism on an AP carry makes any ap carry instantly very very strong. For example, gragas has a lot of strength in his poke, but if you took away his dash / charge, he would probably be in the t4 or t5 range of champions rather than t1, just because especially on a melee, he needs that, but giving an escape mechanism to a ranged AP basically makes it so, the second you see a gank, you can jump what I have found to be about 1.5x flash distance, then you should still have flash up if you need it, but really as long as you're alright at ziggs, you can just W, click and w again in all of half a second or a second.

The ult... in my opinion its one of the best teamfight ults in the game, it even beats karthus ult in my view, because karthus ult takes so much time to cast, and it does much less damage. I have been in situations where like 3 people were chasing a team mate who just back doored an inhib, He runs to me, I ult, which lets them either run away and not get hit by the ult, or get hit by the ult but then engage on our fleeing jax. They decided to continue, so the ult hits all 3 of them bringing the enemy AD (Sivir) to literally 40% hp right away, kennen to like 50%, and GP to like 65%. Then we decide we can engage 2v3 (jax was already at like 25% hp, all he does is stun them, I get a doublekill with mines + Q, then gp just runs. Jax runs immediatly after the stun, so largely it was just like, INSANE ult damage, followed by 2 more insane damage abilities, and even if I didn't get the kill, I have an escape mechanism, so engaging 1.5 or 2v3 isn't really that scary. Also at this point in the game, I really wasn't that fed, it was 25 minutes, I was at like 2/1/something, I had RoA sorc boots, and needlessly large + Blasting wand. So really around like 220 AP or so.

So overall, he has massive damage, massive range (with both ult and Q). An escape mechanism, lane zoning mechanism. He lacks CC but that doesn't really matter if you can throw down an ult in a teamfight that takes the enemy team down 50% hp... more so than any AP carry before, he FORCES people to build MR, even when he isn't fed. You don't have to rush MR items against any other AP carry, but for ziggs, MR is a pre-requisite.

His only counter in lane, and this hardly counts, is galio. Against ziggs as galio, I go chalice, merc treads, abyssal scepter, deathcap. Even when you have the abyssal though, ziggs still does enough damage... against every other AP carry, when I get my galio to that point, I can take their burst combo and continue CSing because it does so little...


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TastyFreeze

Junior Member

02-02-2012

OP


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Tiklmesilly

Senior Member

02-02-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snackattack View Post

he FORCES people to build MR, even when he isn't fed. You don't have to rush MR items against any other AP carry, but for ziggs, MR is a pre-requisite.

H
he doesnt require you to buy MR any more then annie or cassi. just dont be a tard and run over mines they only last 10 sec.

also you have to make the decision to use your long CD "W" as a low dmg offensive abilitiy or to save it for an escape. leaving him with either no escape or only 2 dmg abilitys and a ult. the base dmg on his ult is average especially because it doesnt do full dmg except in the dead center of it.


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18X Jake

Senior Member

02-02-2012

UP-Balanced


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FrouFrou22

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Junior Member

02-02-2012

He's balanced he is nuke so all his attack and his passive are doing damage so he's doing some op combo but if he already do his attack the cooldown just make him die because he will not be able to do damage

FrouFrou22