Claims of AD Champs over AP champs

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OhItsShowTime

Member

01-31-2012

I have heard claims that any mage will always lose to main ad champs. And Suppoesdly AD champs are stronger and will always win. Any sayings on this. People i know are claiming mages are bad champs because they cant carry .


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Kirielis

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Senior Member

01-31-2012

I don't know who you've been talking to. That isn't the case. On any of the points stated. If you want to play mage, go right ahead - with mid lane control in early game, and nuking potential in late game, you can definitely carry as a mage.


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Quick Rawr

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Senior Member

02-01-2012

Poppy, Nidalee, Karthus, Ryze, Veigar... and so on and so on.

There are a lot of chars that build AP and can do extremely well. And, 1v1 would do quite well against an AD champ like Tryndamere or Master Yi.


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Nolasaur

Member

02-01-2012

AD range don't usually have stun's in their kit, except like vayne. Now when you bring in an AP carry like xerath who can stun and burst you down while still in the stun the xerath probably wins.


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Hyosun

Senior Member

02-01-2012

You've been listening to someone who obviously doesn't know what they're talking about.

Mages carry hardcore all the time. A good mage in mid has a relatively larger amount of burst damage and danger factor in mid-game than anyone else in the game. Combine that with their position on the map ( mid ), they can gank top, gank bot, or secure dragon quite easily with overwhelming burst damage.

AD champions will do more damage over a longer period of time but that's IF they live that long.
Any Leblanc worth her slot on the team can press W,Q,R,E or Q,R,W and can bring someone from 100% hp to 0% in the blink of an eye. That's enough time for an ad carry to get one hit in, maybe 2.

Mages carry hard.

Akali, Karthus, Xerath, Kennen, Kassadin, Brand, Annie, Cho, Swain, Ryze, Malzahar, Morgana, Fiddlesticks, Amumu

Whether it's burst damage to a single target, slowing an entire team, being unkillable, bringing an entire team to half hp or being a unstoppable zone of destruction, mages can carry.

If you want proof, search youtube for westrice akali, or ego ignaxio kennen. Or type in any mage's name + pentakill and you will probably find a couple of vids for each.

... mages can't carry.... what kind of garbage is that?


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OhItsShowTime

Member

02-02-2012

Hes saying that the ad in general is better then the ap . He plays the ap carry and loses to ad. Hes saying they shoudl make a item that gives ap and armor. I must remind you all he plays 3v3 alot and its totally imbalanced where as i play both but more 5's then 3's and Hes saying when your playing a mage against a good ad player they cant carry.


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Kronos701

Junior Member

02-02-2012

AD can basically win if they get close to you while AP can win from a distance. Also, early game an AP is weaker but late game they are incredible.


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Emeraldw

Senior Member

02-02-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by OhItsShowTime View Post
Hes saying that the ad in general is better then the ap . He plays the ap carry and loses to ad. Hes saying they shoudl make a item that gives ap and armor. I must remind you all he plays 3v3 alot and its totally imbalanced where as i play both but more 5's then 3's and Hes saying when your playing a mage against a good ad player they cant carry.

That gives a bit more insight into what he is saying. Early-mid game AP carries will do more to win fights with their combination of damage, AOE and CC. Late game AD carries will do more as they scale much better with items and eventually get to the "I right click and you die point."

That said, I am not so sure about this AD vs. AP carry debate unless he is talking 3's, in which case I know nothing. In SR you need both, if only so the enemy team isn't stacking chainmail/negatron cloak.

Anyways, you can "carry" any game as any role. Seriously, even support can do so much that it will win games, you just don't do the same things.


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Hyosun

Senior Member

02-02-2012

In lane it's easy to get owned by an ad carry if you take harass unnecessarily. There are plenty of mages though who win through burst damage, superior harass/zoning, higher sustain, and higher damage mitigation.

burst damage: leblanc, akali
superior harass/zoning: xerath, cassiopeia ( sp?), swain, kennen, ryze, mordekaiser....etc
higher sustain/dmg mitigation: morgana, swain, chogath, mordekaiser + neone with spellvamp

There are some champs that are going to be really good against ad naturally. Ryze lategame has a lot of armor ( frozen heart ), some hp from catalyst, and a whole lot of hurtin' to put on his opponents. If your friend doesn't think ap carries can do well against ad carries, tell him to play Ryze and build tear, sorc boots, frozen heart and catalyst-> banshees and perhaps even warmogs ( ryze can farm easy ) and then see how that goes.

An ad carry is going to carry late game if he's been allowed to farm. He's going to have a lot of sustained damage but tell your friend to remember that his vulnerability to burst damage / cc has NOT changed. Likewise, if your ap carry is farmed and struts out of nexus with a deathcap you can expect an equal amount of QQ from the enemy team.

I'm not saying that a good ad champion isn't hard to kill or cannot carry games. A good one is a terror. But even strong champions have weaknesses that are quite often easy to take advantage of if you know how.|

If he plays an ap champion like lux or morg on twisted treeline then yes he's going to lose eventually. But not all champs are the same.

swain, ryze, leblanc, xerath

and just as a funny anecdote, my friend played swain a long time ago and was against Ezreal. He was so far ahead that he would block Ezreal's mystic shot so he couldn't even farm minions. Ezreal started QQ'ing early on and was gimped the entire game. The maniacal laugh my friend made while trolling this poor Ez, cigarette and burrito in hand...... oh that was great.


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corallein

Senior Member

02-02-2012

In a straight up 1v1? Yes, burst mages will lose against AD carries if the AD carry can survive the burst. Because burst mages are designed to straight up take a person out of the fight immediately, and then twiddle their thumbs and run around for the next 10 seconds doing nothing.

Good thing this game isn't designed around stupid 1v1 scenarios like that and that good teams have both. And taking the correct enemy player out of the fight immediately is often enough to win your team the entire fight, so burst mages are just as capable as AD carries of winning the game for your team. They ARE called AP carries for a reason.

PS. Not all AP characters are designed around huge burst damage. Karthus and Cassiopeia have huge amounts of sustained damage (until their mana runs out). Ryze and Rumble are Tanky AP. Kennen is lane-domination and AOE CC. Galio is anti-mage-lane and AOE CC. Anivia is area denial in addition to burst damage. Not all AP carries are like Leblanc.


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