Issues/Fixes for Renekton. [Long post. Thou hath been warned.]

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cavecricket48

Senior Member

01-20-2012

It's the general consensus of the community, besides a few, that Renekton desperately needs either a buff or a rework. Granted, he DOES have his perks, but the simple fact that he is outclassed in all the roles that he could play makes him very much in need of a revamp.

Renekton has the stats and the kit for the role as a tanky DPS. He's got the ult to do it with, which is boosting his max HP and doing constant DPS- low, perhaps, but it's constant- to enemies around him. However, he has a handicapped stun, he has a somewhat passable and often insufficent gap closer/escape mechanism, and he has some passable sustain.

The first issue is that while Nasus can actually raise the damage on his ult's AoE slightly, since most Nasus build Trinity Force, Renekton simply doesn't have the slot to do the same. He doesn't operate on MP- rather, he uses Fury, and rather badly as well. The only skill that operates on AP is the AoE damage on Dominus, and it's horrible- 1 extra point of DPS for ever 10 AP, and Renekton only generates Fury during its duration, nothing more save the health cap raise. Nasus get increased attack damage as well as a raised HP cap and AoE DPS that notches off a percent of the enemy's health per second.

What is this?

Renekton was designed to utilize Fury- unlike Tryndamere, who was given a graft. But while Tryndamere actually uses it quite well- a little too well in some cases- Renekton fails terribly with it. He consumes half his Fury for every skill cast above 50 Fury and his passive does absolutely nothing besides give a miniscule boost to Fury generation- Below 50% health anyways. Oh, and the moment he gets about 50.0% HP, he loses that bonus.

His Q is his best skill currently; the low cooldown, the pretty good AD ratio, both un and empowered, and the fact that it's a poor man's lifestealer make it a pretty good move. The last part could definitely use improvement, however; as the game progresses, the fact that a smart Renekton's building HP is making the amount of HP sapped by Cull of the Meek worthless.

His W is the passable stun from earlier, with handicaps- Renekton actually suppresses himself when he uses this, and he can't actually take good advantage of the stun that he just put on an enemy, which makes this move subpar for dueling- the amount of time you stun the enemy is the amount of time you have disabled yourself. (Unless it's Trynd, in which you sap valuable time off his ult... But why're you dueling Trynd in the first place? Catching is the only good reason I can think of)

Renekton's E is... Well. You would expect a crocodile spiraling towards you to have a bit more range with that gigantic blade that he's carrying, but nope, he doesn't even really hit people to the sides at all. Sure, the armor penetration is nice, but the distance- The distance is HORRIBLE (You can't even go through the walls of the bases), and to use it effectively in an escape or chase you need to have already closed in on the enemy to hit them with Slice, or you have to have the good luck of chasing through an enemy minion wave.

Oh, and the passive, which is there with Ashe's in terms of usefulness (or lack thereof). By being closer to death, Renekton generates 2 extra fury per hit. Wonderful. Tryndamere, a character not actually designed to use Fury, actually gains extra attack damage by virtue of Bloodlust and extra crit chance by virtue of his passive- and though Tryndamere rarely builds tank items, his ability to simply not die... Well. What more needs to be said? Sure you can Exhaust/Ignite Trynd but isn't that the purpose of a tank to draw fire? And the fact that he's making people actually use summoner spells on him... He's doing the job of a tank better than most tanks themselves, and that's especially bad for Renekton.

As of now, Renekton has little to no viablity besides those savants who can play him like a grand piano in Carnagie Hall. But if they can do that, they could probably do it better with some other tanky DPS.

So, a list of my propsed changes for the poor guy:

Reign of Anger: Currently, Renekton has 50% extra fury generation when he is below 50% health.

Proposed: At 66% HP and lower, Renekton will not lose fury no matter how long he has been out of combat. (If his HP goes above, then fury levels will immediately begin to fall) At 50% HP or lower, Renekton gains 10% attack damage. At 33% or lower, Renekton gains 10% armor and magic resistance. (All bonuses are lost the moment Renekton slips above those thresholds)

Instead of consuming 50 fury for using empowered moves, Renekton now consumes 33 fury to use an empowered move.

Cull of the Meek: Raise the maximum healing cap by 50% for all levels; in exchange, lower the amount of HP that can be sapped per minion, but keep the amount of healing at current values for champions. The empowered version should remove the healing cap altogether. (The damage is fine)

Ruthless Predator: Either accelerate the animation time of Renekton, or boost the the stun times by 33% so that the unempowered version stuns for 1 second versus 0.75 seconds, and the empowered version stuns for 2 seconds versus 1.5 seconds. (If the latter option is chosen, then keep the self-suppression time the same)

Slice and Dice: Increase the range of both Slice and Dice's dashing range by 25% and increase the width of the damaging zone. Apply the armor reduction for both phases of the move when empowered; decrease the armor reduction by 33% of the current values for each phase.

Dominus (Ultimate): Renekton, in addition to the passive fury generation and max HP boost, now gains 10/12.5/15% magic resistance and armor when Dominus is active; the DPS now has a 0.05 AD ratio, in place of its current 0.1 AP ratio.

So, could anyone be constructive about this across the board change (i.e. what you like, what you dislike, and what you would change if you dislike something), then that would be greatly appreciated. I expect LOTS of downvotes.


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Soosh1

Junior Member

01-20-2012

Read title, passed over the supposedly Long post.


Just kidding. Seems like good changes, but could be improved. The ult is really fine, it doesnt need changes, except Health bonus scaling, like +1 health per AD or something.


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cavecricket48

Senior Member

01-20-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soosh1 View Post
Read title, passed over the supposedly Long post.
I'll make them longer next time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soosh1 View Post

Just kidding. Seems like good changes, but could be improved. The ult is really fine, it doesnt need changes, except Health bonus scaling, like +1 health per AD or something.
First off, "could be improved" means what exactly? Please be more specific next time.

I kind of like your idea for changing his ult, but it would only benefit if you stacked AD. And you can't use AD currently because Renekton is a tanky DPS. What happens if someone catches Renekton without his ult up if he went all AD based on your idea? Expect a quick death, slightly prolonged by the stun.


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Lizardons

Senior Member

01-20-2012

Ya being a renekton user myself i agree with everything you say. I hope riot actually notices what the renekton community has been saying since he could use some buffs/tweaks to make him better.


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Felza

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Senior Member

01-20-2012

i have to say i am actually quite impressed. this thread has some nice changes but I am very sorry that I have to oppose some of your ideas.

Passive: 66% and 33% is extremely hard to indentify unless you have a TI calculator when you play :/

Q: truthfully, don't reduce the base heal no matter what, this skill heals 15-20 at level 1 when I hit 6 minions.... sometimes I go, really?! even when empowered I heal about 25. it gets frustrating.

W: just reduce the stun animation, though its really cool

E: increase Slice range, but not dice range will be enough.

R: Just really needs reduced CD. hmm and the scaling for the health would be nice.

This is my set of changes:

Reign of Anger
Renekton gains 5 Fury per attack, dealing the killing blow on minions grants him 5 bonus fury. Having 50 or more Fury empowers his abilities with bonus effects but drains 50 Fury when they are used. Out of combat, he loses 5 Fury every 2 seconds.

When Renekton is below 50% Health, He is granted 15/35/55 more armor, Magic resist and armor penetration.
When Renekton is Bellow 25% Health, He will permanently have max fury. (when he gets above the lev el, he will be left with 50 fury)

Cull the meek
10/9/8/7/6

No Cost
Renekton swings his blade, dealing (60 / 90 / 120 / 150 / 180) (+(0.8 per attack damage point)) physical damage to nearby enemies and gains ( 10 / 18 / 26 / 34 / 42 ) Health for each minion hit and ( 20 / 30 / 40 / 50 ) for each champion hit. If only One champion is hit, it heals for a flat ( 50 / 70 / 90 / 110 / 130 ). the healing from minions is capped at ( 60 / 120 / 160 / 200 / 240)

50 Fury Bonus: Damage increased to (90 / 135 / 180 / 225 / 270) (+(1.2 per attack damage point)). Heals an additional (10 / 25 / 40 / 55 / 70 ) per champion hit.

Ruthless Predator

13/12/11/10/9

No Cost
Renekton's next attack strikes twice, dealing [(10 / 30 / 50 / 70 / 90) + (1.5 per attack damage point)] physical damage ((10 / 30 / 50 / 70 / 90) + (150)% of his Attack Damage) and stuns for 0.75 seconds. Each hit applies on-hit effects.

50 Fury Bonus: Instead, Renekton attacks three times, dealing [(15 / 45 / 75 / 105 / 135) + (2.25 per attack damage point)] physical damage ((15 / 45 / 75 / 105 / 135) + (225)% of his Attack Damage) and stuns his target for 1.5 seconds.

Slice and Dice

18/17/16/15/14

No Cost
Slice: Renekton dashes, dealing (30 / 60 / 90 / 120 / 150) (+(1.2 per attack damage point)) physical damage. Hitting an enemy grants the ability to use Dice for 4 seconds.

Dice: Renekton dashes, dealing (30 / 60 / 90 / 120 / 150) (+(1.2 per attack damage point)) physical damage. 

Dice - 50 Fury Bonus: Damage increased to (45 / 90 / 135 / 180 / 225) (+(1.4 per attack damage point)). Enemies hit have (15 / 17.5 / 20 / 22.5 / 25)% reduced Armor for 4 seconds.

Dominus

120/105/90

No Cost
Renekton surrounds himself with dark energies for 15 seconds, gaining (300 / 450 / 600) (+1 health for every attack damage Point) Health. While active, he deals (40 / 70 / 100) (+(0.1 per ability power point)) magic damage to nearby enemies and gains 10 Fury per second.


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cavecricket48

Senior Member

01-20-2012

First off... Uhhh... thanks?

First off, though I kind of like your passive idea... The problem is, immediately giving Renekton all those extra numbers when he's below 50% health may make him a bit too powerful in some situations, or encourage players to play in a risky fashion. My version of Reign of Anger was to ensure that the lower Renekton's health gets, the more combat benefits he gets. Sure, 66% and 33% aren't exactly easy numbers to compute, but do you honestly need to compute those numbers? (You and your opponents will notice the benefits as your health gets lower, anyways)

For his Q, I guess you're right- it would be dumb to reduce the base heal. I still want to keep it the same but raise the healing cap. A percentage of damage dealt for healing? That's great right there.

For his E, I really think that both phases of the skill needed increased range and width, and that armor reduction needs to be reduced when Slicing, not just Dicing- It makes more sense that Slicing leads to Dicing, and from there you attack. The armor reduced right now doesn't seem enough; I'm only asking for the total armor reduction on a single target to be increased by a third, as well as the greater range and width.

Health scaling for his ult to me is a bad idea. I mean, it would definitely differentiate him from Nasus; however, this would encourage players to mostly eschew building tanking items and mostly building AD items and relying exclusively on his ult during teamfights for surviving. So what happens when his ult runs out? Or if he gets caught without his ult ready for use? That's the problem I see with this potential change. Just bumping his defenses and changing the AoE damage scaling to AD would be a better solution to improving Dominus.


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Bonabon

Senior Member

01-20-2012

Playing Renekton a bit this week I feel like he could be a lot of fun, but I find a lot of the time there's really no room to use his fury "strategically." Like when I'm above 50 Fury, I rarely have time to think about which ability I should use it on for the most impact. The only time I really feel this free is during his Ult, or if I'm kiting someone and just happen to have 50+ fury. But in the midst of combat you basically hit abilities as they come up; you might not always have the time to wait for that better ability to come off CD.

I'd really like to see his Fury mechanic streamlined a bit so it feels more like a fluid part of his playstyle as opposed to this semi-random bonus. Whether it's just increasing Fury generation on abilities/attacks/damage taken, or even making it generate passively like Shyvana (my preference, since he seems like a generally angry guy anyway :P).

Being an AD "caster," Renekton would benefit greatly from the front-loaded damage of being able to walk into a duel/fight/gank with a full or mostly full Fury bar without having to farm it up before-hand. Having to farm Fury on a minion wave and then instigate a duel before your Fury starts to deplete is just tedious is isn't really a supported play-style in all game modes (i.e. Dominion).

I also agree that it would be nice if his E was a little longer/wider, and definitely should be able to go through walls.


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Gilzam

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

01-20-2012

I agree with EVERYTHING... except that empowered abilities should still cost 50 fury and his spins pretty good... it shouldn't get buffed too much.


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Level200Poop

Senior Member

01-20-2012

You guys are over complicating the whole passive thing and your asking for too much. The main problem i have with Rene is he has no fury...Ever even with 100 fury he can only used 2 empowered skills before he is all drained out. So then what he has to rely on auto AA while his skills cooldown to try and scavenge the little known as 5 fury per AA. Its a Fkin joke.

I think it should be something simple. He gets X amount of fury increase on AutoAttacks for X% amount of health missing. Also he should get double fury gain when he hits enemy champs and +5 on last hits.

I like the idea of his empowered skills using less fury, but i can also see this making him over powered. As it is he's pretty strong when you use his fury properly. Also they can probably touch up on his Ulti cause like OP said sucks compared to Nasus.


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xxsuzukixx

Member

01-20-2012

i think that cull of the meek should be a 1.0 ad scaling, but the damage for it would have to be reduced


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