I'm saying it: Last hitting is an archaic game mechanic

First Riot Post
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CrewzControl

Senior Member

01-26-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotMontag View Post
This is a fantastic proposal. Very thorough and well thought out. Good job, dude.

I forwarded this on to our live design team. Hopefully it inspires them. We shall see.

You might consider [url2=http://www.riotgames.com/careers/design]applying[/url2], too. Make your case in person.
O.o


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Zraxiar

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Senior Member

01-26-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by MoLiva View Post
I think last hitting adds a certain skill element as there is a fine balance of things you need to do in lane. Harass, avoid harassment, last hit, set up ganks, and avoid being ganked all at the same time separates the good players from the bad.
^

but we'll see wat the future holds


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Papptist

Junior Member

01-26-2012

hey here's an idea riot, release that stupid fire themed map and do this rule-set with it.


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FaineAway

Member

01-26-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke Br0heimer View Post
No reading comprehension. Get outta here.
This is what is wrong with to many people/organizations these days. The place where I personally notice this a lot is in gaming companies. They take a very basic mechanic out of the game to cater to the larger crowd. Ok fine take out last hitting and add these special bonus zones. The game balance gets thrown out the window. I cannot honestly say I know exactly how it plays out, but I see all late game champs becoming useless. Cause guess what? If the other team just takes hard pushers and early game dominators you can just shove lanes down the other teams throat. You will have so much more gold then the other team that late game won't even matter. That could be the new meta. Everyone just runs around and tries to super push lanes and snowball. I am not saying the OP did not put a lot of time/effort/thought into his idea, but to me its not the solution and drastically changes the game as a whole.

Honestly last hitting is a game within the game. You can take into consideration zoning, positioning, harassing, and denying(Heal denying) all within one lane. It might not be the most exciting thing to watch, but it is a level skill/thought/strategy that I believe it important.

Another point brought up was that it would change the meta. Guess what? Being a little creative and just time is going to change it. Look at Kiev. People are already talking about the possibility of a new more aggressive meta. Just being Someone will give some new things a try and realize it is better then the current one. The meta will change again and then in some months people will be complaining about that meta.

Just think about the changes they are making to D3. They are taking "trivial" things out of the game to simplify it. The lead developer left the company because of it. Not saying this is an exact parallel, but taking out big mechanics that are easily managed with a little effort to simplify the game will never make much sense to me.


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Jorick

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Senior Member

01-26-2012

I would love to see this as an alternate game mode, it would make for some really different and dynamic gameplay. For those of us who love the classic DotA style game, though, I would also want to see normal Summoner's Rift stay in place.

A couple thoughts I had, though.

First, if you don't have to do anything at all to get gold from minions, that could indeed promote some very passive gameplay. Camp in the enemy brush just past the risk zone line and let minions kill each other, poking at the enemy if they come into view. Perhaps something like requiring at least 1 point of damage done to a minion to gain gold from it, and the total gold being split between all damage dealers, would be better. That way you still have to do something about the minions rather than treating them as essentially another form of free passive gold gain. Then again, this would probably retain the 0 cs support thing since letting your carry get all the gold would still be better. I dunno, just a thought I had on passivity in regards to minions and how to prevent it.

Also, with the risk zone concept, shouldn't jungle minions on the opposite side of the river give more gold too? And to keep jungling competitive and make smite stealing still something that matters, perhaps jungle minions (including Dragon and Baron) should retain the last hit takes all mechanic. Otherwise Dragon would no longer be a resource to be truly fought over, but rather both teams would congregate around Dragon and kill it and share the gold evenly, and only the fight afterwards would make any difference to the game.

Finally, the global gold for turrets killing minions seems very counter-intuitive. Why should an NPC (essentially, that's what they are) killing enemy minions grant global gold? That's like saying that in an RPG like Skyrim (not the best example because of the lack of normal RPG experience bar, but still), a guard killing a monster should give you experience because you were nearby. I realize the intent is to make it so leaving your lane is not so much of a detriment, but if your goal is to reduce PvE emphasis and raise PvP emphasis, there are other ways to do so. A combination of lowering minion gold rewards and raising champion kill gold rewards would do this admirably. Say for example you adjust it so a kill on a champion is worth 4 (or 5) minion waves of gold, 2 (and a half) minutes of time away from your lane. This is more time than anyone should really need to go and attempt a gank on a lane, and if you're successful you've gained a lead rather than losing gold. And if you're not successful, you've lost less gold than you would in SR.

Just a few ideas I had after reading your write up.


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urmamasllama

Senior Member

01-26-2012

great proposals although ome lower level tweaking in mininon stats and such would probably be needed to balance it out this would renew my interest in SR as i only play dom right now


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WalkTheNikasaur

Member

01-26-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotMontag View Post
This is a fantastic proposal. Very thorough and well thought out. Good job, dude.

I forwarded this on to our live design team. Hopefully it inspires them. We shall see.

You might consider applying, too. Make your case in person.
k just keep in mind that you'll lose half your players if it goes through


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SkysMoon

Senior Member

01-26-2012

The link works for me, as of 2 minutes ago. =D
This is a very well thought out paper, and I would like to thank you for bringing light to this and possible issues. My mind of course is filled with many thoughts, but one in particular sticks out.
With mechanics like this in place, perhaps there should be some incentive for a player to last hit. Ideas/examples include:
1) Increased exp/gold to last hitter
2) last hitter receives gold/(exp) ONLY, and the "aura" effect is non-applicable - also could work with the increase
3) have the "aura" effect give a reduced amount of exp/gold (and give last hitter full amount of exp/gold)
4) this would then help your carries get more farm and your support be not quite as farmed.
5) this gives incentive to make judgement whether to last-hit or aoe smash a minion wave in essence potentionally reducing last hits. You could then single creep farm in hopes to gain a tad more exp (and "pros" might like this) or aggressively eat minions and gobble up all the exp. Perhaps it could be balanced so that a caster/ranged would be just on the edge of the "aura" making it more last-hit-esque efficient so they don't get harassed -- but someone like singed would enjoy the benefits of being in a minion wave to farm.


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Kuranith

Senior Member

01-26-2012

This wouldn't seriously make any champions OP, but it would be more fun (I would concentrate on attacking the enemy, and keeping them from getting into the 1.25x Zone.)

By the way, will 1.25x guaranteeing become a mechanic? You know, when a few minions are going to die, walk into 1.25x for a few seconds and walk out. How about making it so you have to be there for a couple of seconds?


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2pudge1cup

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Senior Member

01-26-2012

I can't believe riot would wnat to do this ****.

This is a horrible idea. Some things like upping bounties for towers is good, but this whole idea of splitting gold and a 'risk zone' really takes away from separating good players from bad ones. This is a game where it's already hard enough to regain map control after it's lost. Now any early game pusher can kill the map around you without really worrying about the 'game within the game.'

It just makes no sense to try to fix what isn't broken.