I'm saying it: Last hitting is an archaic game mechanic

First Riot Post
Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Asylum Lux

Senior Member

01-26-2012

I love all of these ideas. Period.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Mikhal

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

01-26-2012

I'd love these changes. After the nerf to jungle (and making it a lot more passive... psh, lanes are harder to punish and they still only want last hits), there needs to be more incentive to roam/gank.

Roaming meta was the funnest!


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

FaineAway

Member

01-26-2012

"Last hitting to hard. Plz remove."


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

jermikemike

Senior Member

01-26-2012

Many of his points are under the assumption that pushing early towers is bad, which is not the case.

He states that killing towers early gives the enemy an even safer place to farm. This is incorrect, the enemy in that lane was going to farm anyway, be it at their tier 1 tower or their tier 2 tower, doesn't matter.

It also doesn't open your laners up to more danger by being over extended. Instead, it allows those laners to move to other lanes and roam, increasing the risk of death to the team who lost the tower, and subsequently causing them to lose more towers from being outnumbered in their lane. If blue teams bottom tower falls and their bottom laners choose to stay at their next bottom tower and farm while purple teams bot laners go push mid, then blue team will lose mid tower as well. Instead they have to react and help defend mid. AKA no safe farming.

Furthermore, taking early towers gives you stronger control of dragon (if middle or bottom tower), because the enemy would naturally be staying closer to their still intact towers, which would give them less time to travel to dragon and force a fight there.

Interesting idea, but his pros and cons are not completely true.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Duke Br0heimer

Senior Member

01-26-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by faineaway View Post
"Last hitting to hard. Plz remove."
No reading comprehension. Get outta here.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

VicariousVesper

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

01-26-2012

Well, LoL is already casual D.O.T.A.

Why not make the tournament scene look like more of a joke to the "competition" games. I approve.

Remove one of 3 remaining bastions of skill within the game: Last Hitting.

Leaving only Positioning (Allowing skillshots to hit, knowing where to be, map awareness all fall into this.) and Selection ("This team sucks, we've lost at character select, oh good we counterpicked the entire enemy team yay we win no skill involved!).

And how this community works, if it risks passive play, it will probably embrace passive play. Bad idea..


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

KrYoS

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

01-26-2012

I think this is a brilliant proposal. Blizzard DOTA is already planning on doing away with the last hitting model to promote a more team oriented gameplay. This also would likely cause a shift in the current meta game and allow for more varied champion compositions.

I think the whole last hitting thing is one of the reasons I only play Dominion now. For the truly "hard core DOTA" players, there is always DOTA 2. I've played the beta and like it on some ways, but the death penalty, in addition to the lost farming potential and other problems with the whole "snowball" effect make the MOBA games not very approachable, especially for new players.

Obviously, the OP put a lot of thought in to this and I believe that he's right in that the whole last hitting mechanic is very dated. This makes the think of the "auto attack" and "target out of range" functions in MMO's, which are old and dated and that "real time" and fast action oriented combat, much like what Guild Wars 2 is looking to accomplish and what SWTOR failed to do.

The bottom line is that dated mechanics are dated and that the MOBA genre has a lot of potential, but the current systems in place simply do not promote a very "team oriented" play style and, for many people, are rather boring and slow. The OP has some great ideas and it would be great to see some changes in the MOBA genre, LoL in particular. I like it. Obviously not everyone will, but perhaps it could be the new "standard" mode and they could offer a "classic" style?


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Shelton

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

01-26-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by jermikemike View Post
Many of his points are under the assumption that pushing early towers is bad, which is not the case.

He states that killing towers early gives the enemy an even safer place to farm. This is incorrect, the enemy in that lane was going to farm anyway, be it at their tier 1 tower or their tier 2 tower, doesn't matter.
The point here is that the minions push farther passed the river, therefore giving the enemy team benefit of protection by their jungle. It will give more distance to farm before pushing to the enemy turret, thus being less risk.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jermikemike View Post
It also doesn't open your laners up to more danger by being over extended. Instead, it allows those laners to move to other lanes and roam, increasing the risk of death to the team who lost the tower, and subsequently causing them to lose more towers from being outnumbered in their lane. If blue teams bottom tower falls and their bottom laners choose to stay at their next bottom tower and farm while purple teams bot laners go push mid, then blue team will lose mid tower as well. Instead they have to react and help defend mid. AKA no safe farming.
Like he stated, pushing an early tower only puts you at a gold advantage of about 30 seconds. So if you were to go and roam or gank, you are already putting yourself at risk of being behind the enemy team who is safely farming on their side of the river.
Also, if you were to go push middle, mid could lose a tower, but bot could, at the same time, push your bottom tower down, as well as more minion kills.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jermikemike View Post
Furthermore, taking early towers gives you stronger control of dragon (if middle or bottom tower), because the enemy would naturally be staying closer to their still intact towers, which would give them less time to travel to dragon and force a fight there.
This would seem to be the only advantage. More map control considering there is no immediate protection for the opposing team.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Doonhijoe V

Senior Member

01-26-2012

You may need to decrease passive gold gain/minion gold reward if some of these are implemented, but I agree that this would make LoL much more interesting, but would take decades to get right.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

MasterofSFL

Senior Member

01-26-2012

I fully back this Idea. My biggest problem with the game currently is Last hitting is mandatory if you want any gold gain at all during the laning phase. This mechanic is the limiting factor in a lot of champions such as Karma, Leona and any other champion who needs gold but is either Restricted from it due to their class (Previous Two champions) or have a hard time last hitting (Melees such as Poppy).

While plenty of players I'm sure will disagree with this proposal as a way of "Making the game easier" I will say this, making a game less complicated and removing redundant mechanics does in fact shift your attention to other skills before neglected. The current AD/Support bottom is the primary example of how this mechanic is actually limiting players skills and creativity, currently Last Hitting keeps most kill lanes from being effective enough to stop Farm lanes such as this, as the OP stated, Pushing someone out of lane, or engaging an opponent does not guarantee a lead as the loss of Minion gold is too much for the aggressive players, yet easily made up by the passive ones.

Relinquishing this mechanic for a more streamlined, modern one, will open up new doors for both casual and pro players to experiment with different lanes and Team setups that actually work effectively and are able to change metas.

Of course the proposal is not perfect, while Last hitting to me shouldn't be the only way of getting minion gold, I do believe that it should still play a part in the gold gain so that Farming champions still can accumulate gold and Assassin lanes do not gain grievous amounts of gold just by being in lane, but the Pros far outweigh the cons.

I applaud the OP for giving us a well thought out and useful piece and I do hope that Riot takes this into account.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jermikemike View Post
Many of his points are under the assumption that pushing early towers is bad, which is not the case.

He states that killing towers early gives the enemy an even safer place to farm. This is incorrect, the enemy in that lane was going to farm anyway, be it at their tier 1 tower or their tier 2 tower, doesn't matter.

It also doesn't open your laners up to more danger by being over extended. Instead, it allows those laners to move to other lanes and roam, increasing the risk of death to the team who lost the tower, and subsequently causing them to lose more towers from being outnumbered in their lane. If blue teams bottom tower falls and their bottom laners choose to stay at their next bottom tower and farm while purple teams bot laners go push mid, then blue team will lose mid tower as well. Instead they have to react and help defend mid. AKA no safe farming.

Furthermore, taking early towers gives you stronger control of dragon (if middle or bottom tower), because the enemy would naturally be staying closer to their still intact towers, which would give them less time to travel to dragon and force a fight there.

Interesting idea, but his pros and cons are not completely true.
And extremely early tower does in fact allow opponents to farm easier and with less risk to themselves. Your team is not going to have the capabilities to Roam and Hold your lane from someone pushing hard at 6 Minutes. Having your Top or AD go mid does nothing at that time except leech EXP and gold from your Mid. As most mids are Spellcaster carries, most will not have a problem holding a lane and gaining a Gold and XP lead over you and your mid.

There are pros for taking it, but the cons at taking it that early can at times be the reason WHY your team falls behind. Remember, being out of your lane means less gold for your team overall and if you have an extended stay in someone else's lane you are gimping them as well if nothing productive happens.