Sejuani and female champs

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Romoku

Junior Member

01-13-2012

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Originally Posted by IronStylus View Post
I've yet to have time to read those articles but I shall do so when I get the chance.

Also.. don't make me get into how Leona's heels actually are a paragon of function and classy design!

Anywhoozle, funny thing is, when I was doing a bit of work on Sejuani, we made an effort to make sure she didn't look dainty. In the art spotlight you're looking at a very action-y pose which may make her diminish because that boar is just so ready to throttle you.

That being said, yes, often in the video game industry, and the entertainment industry, there is a "standardization" of female form. I'm as guilty of it as any other artist when designing. Leona is a tall curvy lady which in my mind is "idealized". We're artists, we like "ideal" and sometimes default to it. (REMEMBER! I'm keeping "Ideal" in QUOTES! "Ideal" is not an "Ideal" term for what I'm "Ideally" trying to explain) That isn't to say that our lexicon is or should be limited to a particular scope, but let's be honest, a lot of natural human tendency which is often hardwired into us makes us gravitate towards particular biological attributes. I'm not trying to defend that gravitation, but I am saying that we are many times inexorably drawn to it... no art pun intended.

Let's also consider something. Readability. In the game, the characters are fairly small, nyez? So, we do often I believe have to make sure we're making sure to make sure that the figure is readable as a girl or guy. How do we do this? Well, proportion, accentuation, exaggeration, etc. Want the feminine form to read in a game? Welp, guess what, it might have to be a bit more famine and/or stylized than usual to read at the proper distance and keep readable when moving. That's just making sure we cover the basics of simple silhouette recognition. If we make her too broad, you might mistake Sejuani for a male, that'd be, ya know, not what we want.

Now, that said, and I may be at bit too full of microwave mashed potatoes at this point, but I do have certain issues with certain champs and their body types. I do flinch here and there when I consider the logistics that certain clothing might entail. However, as an artist, as a gamer, I'm looking for something that's rewarding to my eye. Sometimes that might be a dynamic silhouette, sometimes maybe the nuanced movement of a character, possibly the hardwired biological aspect, or any other pleasing imagery. As a gamer and as an artist, I want a visual reward. That's a lot of what gaming is and art for that matter. Engagement -> Reward.

Particularly though, at least speaking for myself, I also want to know how that armor or lack thereof functions! But, what is the trade off? Do I think Sejuani might need to make a trip to Sports Chalet and get some heavy winter gear? Possibly.. BUT! I also want her to be wearing something more interesting than a Columbia snowboarding jacket and I also want her to read clearly when I play her. That's a whole lot in the equation.

There's trade-offs to everything, and sometimes we don't even know those trade-offs on a conscious level. If you saw Sejuani in a head to toe outfit, or heavily armor-clad, or maybe beefier, well, that actually presents a slew of other visual problems to work out. We then have problems with whether we could tell her gender or not. The boar (Let's take get a betting game going to see if you can guess the boar's name) might indicate, given another armor or outfit situation, that she's a guy. Thickening her up, while addressing how a chick could wield such a weapon comes at a risk of her looking like a male also. We wanted her to be fit and vicious. Adding particular types of clothing, mass, armor, etc might detract from that... also! You haven't seen all her skins yet! Maybe you'll find something cool in there! =D

Personally? I like the more "reasonably" clad gals, but hey, that's why I gravitate towards champs like Leona. But heck, while Sejuani has her own visual style, and unique challenges, I am not opposed to her being taken in the direction she has been. I think our goal is to provide a rewarding experience, sometimes we have to suspend our otherwise pesky disbelief and roll with it. Will we push limits in the future? Yes. Will we also work within pre-established motifs, structures, archetypes and the tendencies for the unconscious mind to latch onto particular tropes as long as we find the situation appropriate? Yes.

Regardless, I'm not sure if this is all making any sense. I'm pretty tired. Also, ya know. Mashed potatoes. Either way, I enjoy these discussions and I'd like to keep having them. There's a lot we go through over here when we design champs artistically and believe me, nothing you're saying hasn't been discussed or not thought over. In the end, we're having fun, and we hope you are too!
Obviously someone hasn't seen Saber's armor from Fate/Zero.


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Pkº

Senior Member

01-13-2012

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Originally Posted by Romoku View Post
Obviously someone hasn't seen Saber's armor from Fate/Zero.
Or Quistis Trepe from Final Fantasy VIII
both are perfect for the "armored but appealing" category


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Raptoreyes

Senior Member

01-13-2012

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Originally Posted by Yaddar View Post
you have to look at my past post

here




liek I said and 8-bit example is STILL relevant, all drawings (and even animals -horses, turtles) are male on our psyches, unless we look for specific features (p**** on a male horse)

being all drawings male by definition, you can play around more easily with males, not so much with females like the swan example, you risk it not look female at all.

A great point. Its does not take much in the way of male characteristics to make a female look like a transvestite. I have been in Thailand a place that tolerates "near males" better then perhaps any other place on Earth and it does not take much to make a female look like a man playing at being a female even if the subject is actually a biological female. While females have remarkable role flexibility by changing hair and clothing styles they also have remarkably little maneuvering room before they are not sexy anymore and worse from the womans point of view remarkably few male characteristics can be added intentionally or not before even a women starts reminding people of a man.

Riot is just doing the right thing by making most of their women as sexy as possible. Women are right to fuss over their looks it does not take much to make a women look like a man and women have pulled off looking like men quite a few times in history. This includes women posing as men to participate in war and one women even had all of Rome convinced she was the gosh darn POPE during the Renascence period. To this day the church has a senior priest check for t e s t i c l es before the Pope is confirmed.

I am just imagining the look on your face when you check out my story thinking I am lying to realize I am telling the historical truth..... Hopefully your jaw does not fall off your head at that moment.


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Sgonzo

Senior Member

01-13-2012

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Originally Posted by Maikky View Post
And thats a bad thing ?

O I'm sorry the average LoL player only has one feeling, I forget .
^ was just speaking ont he fatc that not all the females fit into same archetype


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Kiddalee

Senior Member

01-13-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by FairladyZ View Post
PS: offtopic, if the leaked info of Sejuani's passive applying slow on hit is true, maybe Ashe should get some manacost buffs to her Q, seeing how Sejuani gets it for free? :O
But Ashe is ranged and Sejuani is not, am I correct?


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Scryfire

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Senior Member

01-13-2012

The people downvoting this thread need to read the links posted and seriously reconsider their views about this issue.

Also, if you stop to think about it, how many incoming users and how many current users do you really think Riot would lose by making changes to some female champions to make them less sexualized? Are you going to pack your bags when they reduce Ashe's breast size? If so, I'm not sure why you're playing this game in the first place.


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Kiddalee

Senior Member

01-13-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by bernkastar View Post
I see where you are coming from, but can we PLEASE have a handsome (not overly muscular or aged), skin revealing, male young adult with some biologically gravitation characteristics? I want some male love in this department of matter.

I don't care too much about Riot idealizing female bodies for fan service, but I'm concerned that there's none in terms of males. I know the vast majority of players are straight males, but just ONE would suffice.

Or even a new, attractive Ezreal skin with a different haircut.
Just one? How about Lee Sin? He's not idiot-built like Pantheon and Trynd, he's just hot. Xin Zhao is also popular with the ladies, though he is fully dressed by default. If it's any help, Xin has an objectified gladiator skin.


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Kyle Carpenter

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

01-13-2012

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Originally Posted by ricklessabandon View Post
there are definitely rioters that support the push for more 'hot guys' in league of legends.
Lee Sin isn't good enough as Traditional Lee Sin? 8p


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Farmer Yi

Senior Member

01-13-2012

u like Sejuani design ?

1st time i saw it : hey look Shyv is riding Volibear

cool design?, next champ will be some kind of Fish with 9 heads


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Sgonzo

Senior Member

01-13-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scryfire View Post
The people downvoting this thread need to read the links posted and seriously reconsider their views about this issue.

Also, if you stop to think about it, how many incoming users and how many current users do you really think Riot would lose by making changes to some female champions to make them less sexualized? Are you going to pack your bags when they reduce Ashe's breast size? If so, I'm not sure why you're playing this game in the first place.
^ *** drugs and nine millimeters, thast what we want thats what entertains we dont login to get a grim look into a feudal medievil society ruled by magic(not even game of thrones which is vulgar as hell medievil monarchistic drama has ugly female actresses other then old ladies) we login to see super heroes great champions of light and darkness accomplished heroes of the realms and we want to look upon them and be inspired