Tiger vs Phoenix Udyr

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Atalvez

Member

01-11-2012

Why do people say Phoenix has better late game than tiger? I'm not disagreeing, i'm curious.


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Tyrang

Senior Member

01-11-2012

I don't think the question has simple answer.

In late game, I don't think Phoenix is that great for late game dmg, but the build encourage more tankiness. And AOE is better for team fights.

Tiger encourage burst and the itemization is more of a DPS bruiser, and less on sustain. The burst is quite something tho.

Obviously Phoenix is godly for jungle. But I enjoy tiger a lot more in game play, so I usually built tiger bruiser (I start with 1 point in phoenix for the initial clear speed). When I know that I will be the only tanky champ, I will go full Phoenix.


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Atalvez

Member

01-11-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrang View Post
I don't think the question has simple answer.

In late game, I don't think Phoenix is that great for late game dmg, but the build encourage more tankiness. And AOE is better for team fights.

Tiger encourage burst and the itemization is more of a DPS bruiser, and less on sustain. The burst is quite something tho.

Obviously Phoenix is godly for jungle. But I enjoy tiger a lot more in game play, so I usually built tiger bruiser (I start with 1 point in phoenix for the initial clear speed). When I know that I will be the only tanky champ, I will go full Phoenix.
I am of the opinion that a tiger stance with wriggles is a very fast jungle clear. And i plan on building tankier nomatter what, none of this IE udyr BS.


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Cenerae

Senior Member

01-11-2012

Tiger stance requires a lot of AD to scale effectively, whereas Phoenix requires attack speed.

The latter is easier to fit into a build while still remaining tanky, plus activating Phoenix also gives you a fairly good amount of bonus AD anyway.

Tiger's burst damage. Phoenix is sustained. That's also why Phoenix is generally preferred for jungling, since it's much faster.


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Afgani Annie

Senior Member

01-11-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Atalvez View Post
I am of the opinion that a tiger stance with wriggles is a very fast jungle clear. And i plan on building tankier nomatter what, none of this IE udyr BS.
Phonix with witts end is much faster. While you switch from target to target maybe getting wriggles procs, phoenix clears the full camp in 3~4 hits.


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Carados

Senior Member

01-11-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Atalvez View Post
I am of the opinion that a tiger stance with wriggles is a very fast jungle clear. .
Well, there's problem number one.

No one "clears" jungles anymore.

And yes, getting an item that costs an extra 1.3k helps you "Clear the jungle" really fast when it doesn't matter.


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Umezete

Senior Member

01-11-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carados View Post
Well, there's problem number one.

No one "clears" jungles anymore.

And yes, getting an item that costs an extra 1.3k helps you "Clear the jungle" really fast when it doesn't matter.
cause wriggles suck if you aren't juggling....

I just like tiger because he hits like a truck and enough bad players are so used to phoenix they forget that tiger does on hit damage over time.

I've had alot of flash away only to die a sec later ganks that just make my day XD


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Carados

Senior Member

01-11-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Umezete View Post
cause wriggles suck if you aren't juggling....
What does this have to do with anything in the post you are quoting?


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Tyrang

Senior Member

01-11-2012

Tiger Udyr still jungle pretty fast, just not as godly. You can read up Stonewall's jungle comparison:
http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/attachment.php?attachmentid=96871&d=1325904722

I will say that if you are running against Skarner or Lee Sin or Maokai, definitely do Phoenix, so you won't run the risk of having your jungle raped. Otherwise, against most of the viable junglers, tiger stance is ok.

At-mog tiger is definitely viable. You just won't be a tank, but a tanky bruiser arch-type.

I don't even think IE is that far of a stretch for at-morg build, its just that by the time you finish wriggle and at-mog, that game will be over soon, you might as well get something cheap and useful for late game, like Last Whisper. And you also may need to pack some MR.

And I agree, tiger ganks have more kill potential.

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So put together all the points, here is my deduction:

Choose Phoenix:
- if you wanna out-jungle or counter jungle the enemy
- if you want to be as close to a true tank as possible
- if you want easy jungling

Choose Tiger:
- if you want better gank-kill ratio
- if you want to be a tanky dps (plz dont go pure dps.... you will die fast...)
- if you to have more kills than assists


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RagingDonger

Senior Member

01-13-2012

People actually say that Tiger is the more lategame form in comparison to phoenix. (I'm blatantly disagreeing).

Early game Phoenix form offers more damage potential out or in jungle. Just not as reliably as tiger harass and phoenix tends to push a lane. Tiger is stronger later. Not interested in explaining why right now, just browsing forums.


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