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Heimerdinger Exhaustively Examined

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Cydin

Junior Member

09-22-2012

One would hope that after 34500 views and counting by the LOL community, that the Reds would take notice of the hard work done to re-examine heimerdinger and acknoledge the effort done in this post. Well written and stated, heimerdinger needs a remake and some much needed attention.


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Evolnemesis

Senior Member

09-22-2012

I found a recent answer from Riot (In the GD forum of course...) Morello a few days ago: "Heimer is on the list of champs who need a rework. Nothing to report."

He did not say whether or not they were actually actively working on him now (at this point, I would put my money on not...), and said something about them weighing benefit vs effort when they work on a rework, and that Heimer was high on the 'effort' side, which is why for example, Kat was fixed before him, even though she was still playable and was not near as messed up as him or messed up for as long, because she was relatively easy to fix and just needed a tweak/change to one ability. Reading the not so subtle message between the lines, you also have the unspoken part, which is that besides being less effort, there was also more benefit for Riot, since a LOT more people play her and care about her, and presumably more people buy her and her skins; and not as much benefit to fixing Heimer, who after sitting in his current state for years, is not at all popular and who, from the beginning, Riot themselves (or at least Morello) called a design mistake whose entire style of play hurt the game.

Long story short: 'We'll get to him when we get to him (not that many people even care about him anyway...)'.

Here's a link to the thread and the actual comments:

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/....php?t=2593387 (http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=2593387)

I guess in their minds, they still have a lot of other champs, and are always coming out with more; people still buy new champs and new skins, and their business is still going strong... even if they NEVER fix Heimer, they figure at this point there are so few people that would really care enough to stop playing/buying stuff that they could afford to lose the business, unlike Kat, who was always one of the most popular champions, or the stealth rework, which affected 3 champs AND a mechanic which Riot and a very large number of players really wanted to keep in the game.

Apparently, all we need to wait for is every other champ to be in perfect shape and nobody else needing any kind of reworks or tweaks, including any new champs they come out with; all items, mechanics, and champ roles to be perfectly balanced, and for people to stop buying new champs... If all that happens, then it might actually be worth it for Riot to work on fixing Heimer. Until then, it seems like the sad fact is that his rework will remain on the back burner, behind anything else that is either easier or makes Riot more money.

EDIT: Oh yeah, he admitted in the same thread that Syndra throwing his turrets was intentional to counter him... I guess it's just another way to get more people to stop playing him.


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Evolnemesis

Senior Member

09-22-2012

Bump...

Synopsis of above post:

Morello gives an answer which says: "We will fix Heimer when we decide to get around to it... but it's just not important to us at all... he's on the list of champs who needs a rework, but basically, F*** Heimer, F*** Heimer players, we hate Heimer, we always hated him, he ruins the game, we hate everything he does, we hate how you players want to play our game... Here's another big middle finger nerf in the form of a champ that TOTALLY hardcounters you ON PURPOSE... oh and BTW... we will do ANYTHING we think is easier or that might have more potential to make us money BEFORE we fix Heimer, no matter what you want or how long he remains broken, so once again... F*** you Heimer players, you are a tiny minority we don't care about."


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Korenoth

Senior Member

09-22-2012

Quote:
Evolnemesis:
Bump...

Synopsis of above post:

Morello gives an answer which says: "We will fix Heimer when we decide to get around to it... but it's just not important to us at all... he's on the list of champs who needs a rework, but basically, F*** Heimer, F*** Heimer players, we hate Heimer, we always hated him, he ruins the game, we hate everything he does, we hate how you players want to play our game... Here's another huge nerf in the form of a champ that hardcounters you ON PURPOSE... oh and BTW... we will do ANYTHING we think is easier or that might have more potential to make us money BEFORE we fix Heimer, no matter what you want or how long he remains broken, so once again... F*** you Heimer players, you are a tiny minority we don't care about."


Champions get nerfed, buffed, reworked, reskinned, and new skins, entirely based on popularity. Just because a champion NEEDS it doesn't mean they will GET it if the fast majority of players neither play nor care about said champion. Example: Rumble was on the high side of the power curve for many months after release, but was heavily underplayed. It wasn't until a bug fix brought him in to the spot light that any changes to him actually occurred, because despite his relative power, it was not until then that the player base as a whole noticed.

In short, Riot doesn't care much about Heimer because the player base is not pressuring them to. I've seen exactly one Heimerdinger in the last 3+ months. And he was a random lock in.

As another example, the player base rose in anger at the change of Lux's ultimate's name, Finales Funklen, to Infinite Light, and within ~2 weeks it was changed to the English translation of its original name, Final Spark.

Korenoth


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Evolnemesis

Senior Member

09-22-2012

Quote:
Korenoth:
Champions get nerfed, buffed, reworked, reskinned, and new skins, entirely based on popularity. Just because a champion NEEDS it doesn't mean they will GET it if the fast majority of players neither play nor care about said champion. Example: Rumble was on the high side of the power curve for many months after release, but was heavily underplayed. It wasn't until a bug fix brought him in to the spot light that any changes to him actually occurred, because despite his relative power, it was not until then that the player base as a whole noticed.

In short, Riot doesn't care much about Heimer because the player base is not pressuring them to. I've seen exactly one Heimerdinger in the last 3+ months. And he was a random lock in.

As another example, the player base rose in anger at the change of Lux's ultimate's name, Finales Funklen, to Infinite Light, and within ~2 weeks it was changed to the English translation of its original name, Final Spark.

Korenoth


Still you would think they would have had time since his killing nerfs... well over 2 years... and I'm pretty sure EVERYONE notices he's extremely underpowered and that there are problems with his kit... Riot themselves said he was broken and needed a rework practically from the start and have been promising one for that ENTIRE time... He went from probably having the highest ranked ban rate of any champ in history (it was literally something stupid like over 90% in top-level ranked just because he was so insanely strong in lane) to the least picked champ, being picked in 0.4% of games, also having one of the very lowest winrates... And his not being picked isn't because he wasn't popular, it's because Riot did their best to make him totally obsolete and practically unplayable because they hated his playstyle, or at least what he does in lane. Heck, they probably spent more time and effort just trying to figure out how to stop him than most other champs' entire reworks take. It literally took months, and 5 patches in a row of hardcore nerfs, hitting every single one of his abilities, most multiple times, to finally break him down.

EDIT: I wouldn't say that the community is not pressuring them about it either... look how many pages and views this thread and many others about Heimer have... And you can go back years and find MANY very popular threads about his state with a lot of posts and thousands of upvotes. Riot's main response has always been silence punctuated with an occasional, 'we will get around to it' or some statement like '1 screwed up champ vs 99 working ones is pretty good'... with Morello never forgetting to mention how Heimer totally destroyed the game when he was his old lane god self. Listening to him talk about it, Heimer ruined the entire game and made it totally unplayable for everyone just by his sheer existence AND THEN came out of the screen, broke into his house, and strangled his puppy just for fun.


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Evolnemesis

Senior Member

09-23-2012

(╯°□°)╯︵ ︵ ︵ ︵ ︵ ︵ ︵ ︵ ︵ ︵ ︵ ︵ ︵ ︵ ︵ ︵ ︵ ︵ ︵ ︵ ︵ ︵ ︵ ︵ ︵ ︵ ︵ ︵ ︵ ︵ ︵ ︵ ︵ ︵ ︵ ︵ ︵ ︵ ︵ ︵ ︵ ︵ ︵ ︵ ︵ ︵ ︵ ︵ ︵ ︵ ︵ ︵ ︵ ︵ ︵ ︵ ︵ ︵ ︵ ︵ ︵ ︵ ︵ ︵ ︵ ┻━┻


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AL92

Senior Member

09-23-2012

(╯°□°)╯︵ ︵ ︵ ︵ ︵ ︵ ︵ ︵ ︵ ︵ ︵ ︵ ︵ ︵ ︵ ︵ ︵ ︵ ︵ ︵ ︵ ︵ ︵ ︵ ︵ ︵ ︵ ︵ ︵ ︵ ︵ ︵ ︵ ︵ ︵ ︵ ︵ ︵ ︵ ︵ ︵ ︵ ︵ ︵ ︵ ︵ ︵ ︵ ︵ ︵ ︵ ︵ ︵ ︵ ︵ ︵ ︵ ︵ ︵ ︵ ︵ ︵ ︵ ︵ ︵ ︵ ┻━┻


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kronvict

Senior Member

09-23-2012

Wow, if you have analysed one champion in a game so thoroughly I say you have a tad too much time on your hands. You seem too smart for this go get your PhD, and not in LoL!.


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Trexno12

Junior Member

09-23-2012

Okay heimerdinger was the first character I ever really got into, and to be honest is probably the reason that im playing league of legends today. Him and karma. Both of them are underpowered, but at the same time they do have there place. Now I only play them as counter picks. Yes heimerdinger is a counter pick champion. He counters champions like kassadin and leblanc, because if hes silenced he still gets those turrets.

In regards to his squishyness, this has gotten me tons of kills because they underestimate him for it. having played him I've learned that this helps him get kills. They will go for the kill, but because a smart heimerdinger always gets a zhonyas hourglass I'll get kills. I do agree that they need to buff him but at the same time how his kit is worked is somewhat like singed.

Passive- I would change this to an aura buff whenever an ally champion kills something they gets 10/20/30/40 mana back. It would scale at 1/6/11/16 respectively. This would make it so heimerdinger wouldn't always go oom while bringing a nice aura passive to the team like the one he has now.

Q-Turrets- does a ton of damage but they need to attack you to trigger it. (okay the only thing i would change is make the ap ratio to .25 as well as add 1 bonus health for every point of ability power heimerdinger has) The mechanics behind this are getting low, and being able to do tons of damage, but the thing is late game there ad carry can 2 shot heimerdinger's turrets.

W- Rockets- This is his poke and it does damage to 3 or 5 targets. That means you can get 3 enemies or all 5 in a team fight if you ult. if they stay at there tower kill all but 2 minions and use your w.
(Honestly i would buff the base damage of this to 90/140/200/250/315, but at the same time nerf the scaling to .5 and not .55.) the reason being that if hemier gets fed it takes no skill to do tons of damage and this would slightly make it better. If not do the opposite and nerf the base damage and buff the scaling to .6 per ability power.

E-Stun grenade- okay so hears how i get crazy kills as hemierdinger, because this makes diving so good. you stun them at your turrets and blind them so if you get one stunned and happen to get there jungler blinded he cant auto attack why he takes damage. This also makes when they go to kill you, you get a huge amount of time for your turrets to nail into them.
(This is really broken, yes you can maybe get the stun but its one of the hardest skill shots to land with not that much AOE. Okay I would change this to go a little bit faster, the same speed it when he ults now. I would keep the aoe the same as its good how it is and makes it a really hard skill shot that when it lands has a very high reward. The only thing i would buff is make its scaling from ap to .85 per ability power. Since this is by far one of the hardest skill shots to land in the game in my opinion.

R-Upgrade- I like the idea behind the passive but at the same time its underpowered.

heres my new idea for it

Passive- I would keep this the same as it is.

Active-

Turrets- Adds a slow to the turrets but buff it to 25%, 35%, 50%. When this passive is active the turrets have 50% life steal.

Reasoning- His slow is really underpowered, and while it helps definitely not enough. The idea of the life steal is that his turrets will be able to stay alive a little bit longer in a fight,and there is actually a chance that they wont be 2 shotted.

W- I would keep this exactly the same i actually believe its the one part of his ultimate that is actually balanced.

E- I would double the Aoe of his grenade.


Thats my suggestions. I hope you guys like my ideas and take this serioulsy. Please like if you agree so maybe riot will see this.


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FreakinEpic808

Senior Member

09-24-2012

agree, what a fun waste of champion. he needs help