Testing anti-Yorick counters

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MVpmack

Senior Member

01-09-2012

A lot of people in this forum have mentioned that Yorick is super problematic, bad for overall Dominion balance, etc. I decided that it's worth testing a lot. I play Yorick some. I'm not the best, but I win my lane probably 95% of the time as him. Is there a counter? I wanted to find out.

So a few of you might know that I theorized that Cassiopeia beats Yorick in bottom. I guesstimated it was a close matchup overall. One of my friends mains Cassie, and he is pretty good with her. Either way, I played a few 1v1s of Yorick vs. Cassie. I have to say that I was pretty wrong. Cassie doesn't beat Yorick; she smokes him and there really is no contest.

Analyzing Yorick vs. Cassie and probing for Yorick's weaknesses

When we played the Yorick vs. Cassie games, a few trends emerged. Yorick outpokes Cassie with ghouls, even with her retarded range. However, none of this really mattered because Cassie is still dangerous to him; she pretty much wins if they fight 1v1. This only matters because Cassie pushes harder than Yorick and she can passively push the lane and punish Yorick hard for counterpushing. This is cemented even further by the very low cooldown on her Q, which forces Yorick to play extremely cautiously or she gets a lot of damage for free. If Cassie is allowed to hit with her Q all the time, she actually wins the poke fight. However, I knew the matchup ahead of time, so while she still hit me occasionally, the damage was managable and offset by E. Also, even with mana regen masteries, eventually Yorick just ran out of gas. Given all these problems, and the fact that Cassie just crushes Yorick 1v1 (if Yorick ults, she just runs easily due to haste and slow, if Cassie ults, Yorick dies, if they both ult, Yorick dies and Cassie runs, if neither ults, Cassie either kills Yorick or he runs) it makes this matchup pretty much unwinnable assuming Yorick doesn't completely outclass Cassie in skill.

One of the things I took away from this is that Yorick loses to good push WITH good harass. Is there any other champions out there that do that?

Yorick vs. Soraka

So we played Yorick vs. Soraka, since my friend had her unlocked. He's really bad with Soraka, by the way. Either way, we discovered some more things. This matchup was a lot closer than Yorick vs. Cassie, although I think that part of the closeness might be my friend's lowish skill with Soraka (he knows how to play vs. Yorick, just he was having problems with Starcall range and good timing on Infuse, especially at first). As I predicted, Soraka's strong harass combined with her extreme pushing power proved to be a problem. However, Yorick did do a lot of damage, and especially early game Soraka seemed to have trouble handling the lane. As with the Cassie matchup, I had a lot of problems with mana. In fact, as Soraka gained more and more survivability, Yorick's ability to seal the deal became less and less. Just Rylai's kept me from really following up and FH made most of my damage anemic. Overall, Soraka managed to neut my point twice, but couldn't ever cap it. I capped her point once early game. I think that with a skilled Soraka, it would be fairly problematic, although I don't think she crushes Yorick quite as bad as Cassie.

Conclusions?

1: The bushes are your friend versus ghouls, especially if you have spellvamp or some other method of sustaining.

2: Good harass + good push = Yorick is in trouble. Adding sustain (spellvamp or something else) pretty much seals the deal.

3: Yorick does beat characters that don't have these attributes. For instance, Ryze is not a strong enough pusher and gets outpoked by Yorick. Heimerdinger is a strong pusher, but his harass is not that great -- making it more a matchup of how good Heimer's harass is versus Yorick's countering Heimer's harass.

I encourage people who are having trouble with Yorick to work with harasser/pusher type characters, like Sivir (with lifesteal), Kayle, Cassio (with spellvamp), or Soraka. He's very beatable, imho.


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Ardnalis

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Senior Member

01-09-2012

From my personal experience, I've won against Yoricks with Maokai, Heimer, and Soraka.
With Soraka I leveled my E first, Q second, and W only when I was forced to; EEQ with cata+pot to start. Her E outranges everything Yorick can do and gives her enough time to sneak a Starcall+auto in.
With Heimer I level my turret to 3 then focus on missiles; QWE with Cata+pot to start. Keep a turret placed behind the minion line so that when Yorick inevitable summons his two ghouls to do damage they get shot down quickly. Basically, you end up leapfrogging turrets the entire game. One gank or one person simply walking by and killing your turrets will shut you down, however.
With Maokai I level up my saplings followed by my Q; QWE with cata+pot to start. With a decent amount of AP, a sapling toss+explosion will one shot a wave. You may not be able to "win" but you can easily tie as neither will be able to push for an uncap. Of note, however, Maokai ends up being safer than Yorick is by sheer range. Yorick is a bit easier to gank because of this.


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AAARRRRGGGGGHHHH

Senior Member

01-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by MVpmack View Post
One of the things I took away from this is that Yorick loses to good push WITH good harass. Is there any other champions out there that do that?
Yorick?


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Demonite10

Senior Member

01-09-2012

I'm curious to see how Galio would do against Yorrick as a way to neutralize him. Galio doesn't have any pushing power when an enemy is in the way, but he does have boss node defense. Yorrick has AD scaling, but only one of his skills deals physical damage(and Galio could just build armor anyway). Yorricks ghouls might just give Galio that extra healing he wants in order to stay in the lane, plus with Chalice he'll never oom. Would be interested in the test.


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Stimuz

Senior Member

01-09-2012

The thing about Yorick is that hes got built in sustain and harass so he can focus all his purchases on countering whatever bottom hes against to the point where he can just dump his ghouls and right click them. If he fails at that however, soraka, cass, swain, kog, nasus, anivia, malz, cho can all do very well against him.

Problem is he just has too much build freedom while most of the champs I listed have so many expensive core items to grab before they can start attempting to specifically counter yorick. In any case yorick getting ganks is a lot more potent than yorick getting ganked so you have to keep that in mind as well.


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Stimuz

Senior Member

01-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aroyok View Post
I'm curious to see how Galio would do against Yorrick as a way to neutralize him. Galio doesn't have any pushing power when an enemy is in the way, but he does have boss node defense. Yorrick has AD scaling, but only one of his skills deals physical damage(and Galio could just build armor anyway). Yorricks ghouls might just give Galio that extra healing he wants in order to stay in the lane, plus with Chalice he'll never oom. Would be interested in the test.
It's gonna be just like late game skarner vs medium damage bots where he can just ignore your damage and sustain off your creep wave, cept that will come much earlier vs a low damager like galio.


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IMSOJUICY

Senior Member

01-09-2012

i dont play skarner much, but i've seen bot skarners handle yorick pretty easily once they get to mid game. i dunno if the yoricks were good or not though.


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Demonite10

Senior Member

01-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by IMSOJUICY View Post
i dont play skarner much, but i've seen bot skarners handle yorick pretty easily once they get to mid game. i dunno if the yoricks were good or not though.
I was Yorrick bot vs Skarner once...I stomped him early every time, then he stomped me mid-late every time. It was very humbling.


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larkhill

Senior Member

01-09-2012

well lets examine this.

first off, u need to deal with his ghouls without losing hp. if u cant easily kill his ghouls and not lose too much mana, he'll poke u down.

next, you need to have some sort of sustain. without some sort of heal (or enough pressure to confidently take the health relic every single time and not be susceptible to ganks)

u also need to be able to 1v1. if he engages on u with his ult, u need to be able to do something about it

u also need some sort of wave clearing ability. mid-late game, yorick clears the waves pretty quick and if u cant handle that, ur dead


so what we basically have to have to counter yorick is an aggressive sustain champ. ap champs include (but arent limited to) morg, karth, swain. ad champs can include tryn, nasus, ren, garen


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Stimuz

Senior Member

01-09-2012

AP kog also very easily stalemates Yorick, or anyone else bot for that matter.