Help thread for players, answer by 1800s.

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Kappasun

Member

02-18-2013

If you feel like you need the defensive stats (against assassins, not many peelers in your team), then yes, that would be correct. Another thing to point out, statick shiv on carries like ez can be better than PD because they make your poke better and give you some form of wave clear.


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ExecutionerK

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Senior Member

02-18-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by CSZHUNG View Post
sorry, i forgot to include this question before.

what is "early game" and how many games last beyond the early game. i do not play ranked (i probably will belong in wood league, therefore i'm probably not going in there for the time being) but it seems every other normal game (about 50% in other words) is kind of decided by the 33 minute mark and there are often surrenders before this point.
I will define early game as before 15 minutes. mid game is somewhere around 15 to 35, beyond that will be late game

The 380 hp from giant belt helps you more than you think, because you will be able to lifesteal off from the enemy while you are tanking with that 380hp. Items such as Aegis will also increase the effectiveness of that 380hp by increasing your resistances.

The upgrade vary, but Randuin is the best example when you are against enemy bruisers such as Jax or Irelia, while Warmog is better against most burst casters.


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Gat Malice

Member

02-19-2013

Hey guys. I'm really trying to learn how to play Irelia, but she doesn't really seem to do a lot of damage.

People tell me to build TF/Wits, but wits doesn't seem like that great of an item.

Can someone explain exactly how Irelia "works", what her purpose is, and how to maximize damage with her? Why to pick Wits/TF over say, Zephyr/Frozen Mallet so I can get ninja tabi instead of merc's.. Or is doing damage with her not the point?

Thanks in advance.


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ExecutionerK

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Senior Member

02-19-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gat Malice View Post
Hey guys. I'm really trying to learn how to play Irelia, but she doesn't really seem to do a lot of damage.

People tell me to build TF/Wits, but wits doesn't seem like that great of an item.

Can someone explain exactly how Irelia "works", what her purpose is, and how to maximize damage with her? Why to pick Wits/TF over say, Zephyr/Frozen Mallet so I can get ninja tabi instead of merc's.. Or is doing damage with her not the point?

Thanks in advance.
Irelia's damage mainly comes from her W (True damage). Back in season 2 when a lot of people stack resistances Irelia really punish the enemy for that.

However, in season 3, she is a lot weaker due to health stack, but nonetheless she is still an amazing counter carry bruiser.

The reason behind building TF/Wits is because Irelia will constantly proc Trinity Force via using her skills, with Wit's end to get MR as well as increasing her damage on her W. This build is relatively old, especially with the trinity nerf (mainly higher cost). So people nowadays prefer to build sunfire on Irelia .
**Side Notes: Irelia is much less popular now after health stacking change in season 3.

In order to do damage on Irelia, max out her W. Also noted that her Q proc on-hit effect, including both her W and effects from wit's end.

@Why not Zephyr + FM
Well, Zephyr is always a nice item to have, but early on when you are building stinger, most likely you don't want to build pure attack speed against enemy that is health stacking (such as Darius or Olaf) or else you will just get **** on (due to the fact that attack speed going to take some time to make the real differences). So until you finish off the Zephyr you will most likely have a window period in which many champions can snowball off from you

Once again, FM is nice, but people prefer building a bigger health item and getting the slow somewhere else (such as trinity, and recently I had seen people building Frozen Fist on Irelia, effect seems nice but I don't know how well it will work out due to the lack of Irelia in my gameplays)


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missou

Senior Member

02-20-2013

Just made it into plat. How to reach diamond? What generally sets players from these two tiers apart?


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ExecutionerK

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Senior Member

02-20-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by missou View Post
Just made it into plat. How to reach diamond? What generally sets players from these two tiers apart?
The biggest differences between these two tiers are the use of advantages and going in depth in mechanics.

By the time you reach platinum, you have most of the basic down already. What you want to do even more in Diamond is to push your advantages. Your team will be more and more reliable (due to less elo booster and more game experience in general) and teams will work together much more often (Except the very few troll, of course, but you will know them as you start playing ranked, IT IS ALWAYS THE SAME NAMES)

Rather than focusing on winning the lane, you probably should start focusing on making the best team comp. Wave clear is one of the best examples. The team with zero wave clear can't defend against good pushing teams. Good diamond players will notice that and group as soon as possible. Remember, diamond players start playing like a team and will much more often force you to get out of farming phase as long as it is in their favor.


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missou

Senior Member

02-20-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by ExecutionerKen View Post
The biggest differences between these two tiers are the use of advantages and going in depth in mechanics.

By the time you reach platinum, you have most of the basic down already. What you want to do even more in Diamond is to push your advantages. Your team will be more and more reliable (due to less elo booster and more game experience in general) and teams will work together much more often (Except the very few troll, of course, but you will know them as you start playing ranked, IT IS ALWAYS THE SAME NAMES)

Rather than focusing on winning the lane, you probably should start focusing on making the best team comp. Wave clear is one of the best examples. The team with zero wave clear can't defend against good pushing teams. Good diamond players will notice that and group as soon as possible. Remember, diamond players start playing like a team and will much more often force you to get out of farming phase as long as it is in their favor.
I honestly wasn't expecting much when I asked the question, but that actually makes a lot of sense. Thank you very much.

Could you possibly lay out for me the major team composition cores that are viable and used?
I know of: Standard, Lategame, Poke, AOE Melt, Protect the Kog/Hypercarry, and Push.

Which major team composition style do you consider the strongest and/or most likely to come together in solo queue?

What are some champions that tend to mesh into the strongest or highest number of these stylized team compositions?
In advancing gold to platinum, I've centralized my champion pool almost exclusively into Cho'Gath and Hecarim, as I am simply not as confident in my level of play in other champions. Between these two champions I fill every role except ADC. However, in doing so I have begun to notice a definite lack of cohesion of these two champions into some compositions. Could you recommend me just a couple of champions that could fill in the gaps in the team comps that I can reasonably fit into?

Hecarim seems to fit reasonably well into standard, lategame, and AOE Melt compositions.
Cho'Gath seems to be average in most compositions and not particularly strong or weak in any.


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ExecutionerK

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Senior Member

02-20-2013

1. Poke, AoE, Push are more popular compare to any other. In theory protect the kog works but due to the season 3 item changes less and less people want to protect the carry now.

2. Currently I believe that AoE comp with the ability to force engage or tower dive is the strongest, with the fact that they can also wave clear reasonably well with the AoE as well as disengage.

3. Both Chogath and Hecarim are really good to fit into the AoE comp, although you might want to make sure that your support will peel for the carries, as both of those champions are better are running into the enemy carries' face compare to peeling.
I will also recommend picking up Xin and Maokai, Vi is banned too often but she is also worth the effort to learn.
* What really throw diamond players off from Chogath is not his knockup, rather, it is the silence...


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Sereg Anfaug

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Senior Member

02-20-2013

So, I see posting on a few other threads, and my own thread has yet to recieve any responses, so I'll ask here to see if I can expedite matters:

Quote:
I've been playing Trundle a good bit this free rotation, and I've begun to notice that not only is my farm way behind the rest of my team, it's also significantly behind what I'd be getting on other junglers.

I started building Madred's over Spirit Stone to help with this, but I'm still way behind.

I assume this is because he lacks AoE damage abilities, and without building AD, his camp clear starts to fall off as the game progresses.

Should I now be rushing early offensive items in addition to the razors? It feels like none of that fits with how Trundle should be played, but maybe I'm wrong - I've been wanting to build him as a support/tank jungler, but should I really be going bruiser, or even heavy AD?

Or is there some other solution to the farming problem? Not only can I not clear jungle camps quickly as the game progresses, I also miss lots of CS from minion waves when I have the opportunity to farm them. While last hitting is one of my weakest skills as a jungle main, it's something I can do reasonably well later on with almost any champion simply due to how they scale as the game progresses. Even most of my other jungle champions do this well, but I've been unsuccessful making it work with Trundle.


Quote:
Anybody? I just had a game where I built Tiamat to help my AoE clear, and we won with a good score for me, but all of my lanes were also doing well, so I don't know if that's the difference or not.


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ExecutionerK

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Senior Member

02-20-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sereg Anfaug View Post
So, I see posting on a few other threads, and my own thread has yet to recieve any responses, so I'll ask here to see if I can expedite matters:
Personally I believe that Trundle doesn't fit into the current meta anymore. Season 2 was good for Trundle because of resistance stacking and Trundle's ultimate is really powerful for that, but in the new jungle and meta he lacks both clearing and scaling compare to other junglers such as Xin, Vi and less utility compare to jungle such as Maokai and Hecarim.

Building Tiamat sounds stupid to be, however I don't think I can give any suggestion on Trundle as he just doesn't fit into the new popular meta (Like he can't even build BC to increase his damage, the only thing that comes close will be sunfire)