Help thread for players, answer by 1800s.

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ExecutionerK

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Senior Member

07-29-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Admiral Knox View Post
How do I lane against Darius as anyone that isn't Caitlyn?
Ranged harass is the key, the fact that his skill set will generaly push the lane also helps. Make sure he can't stack the passive on you and push the lane, then one gank from the jungler can set him so far behind that he won't be a problem anymore.

Darius is only OP if you let him stack that passive on you.


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Duhizy

Senior Member

07-29-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by ExecutionerKen View Post
As pantheon, you don't want to build a wriggle. You want to use doran for lifesteal and go build as much power as possible, since pantheon snowballs early on and that is exactly what the build is going to do.. Being tanky shouldn't be an option in this case, and building frozen mallet is usually a waste as most of your damage doesn't come from autoattack.

A better build in my point of view will be building a Phage for HP if you really need it, and GA for the resistance. The phage can be upgraded into Trinity force for more damage or frozen mallet if you really have to get the slow.
So this means that you dont feel that pantheon should ever need to be tanky? does this mean is should basically ditch the hexdrinker and rush a blood thirster after brutalizer?a build more like this? 2 dorans,brutalizer,phage,bloodthirster,GA,last whisper? My current early game items are usually 2 dorans, brutalizer, phage, hexdrinker and the only reason i get the frozen mallet is for the health so that i dont just get raped late game because im melee and im ulting on top of 4 people lol. If you know a better build then what i have early or late can u plz post it.


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RadiantPyrophore

Senior Member

07-29-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by ExecutionerKen View Post
Personally, I think atmorg create a huge period of time with 0 damage increase where you damage can be built up with other items (especially after you finish warmog but still haven't finish atma).

I do not favor on going atmorg unless the enemy are heavy on AD, and if you are fed you are usually better off buying a trinity force.
Oh, yeah, Atmorg.... wait... what the HELL?!?


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Toxic person

Junior Member

07-29-2012

do you have any tip on nault jungle?


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ExecutionerK

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Senior Member

07-29-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by duhizy View Post
So this means that you dont feel that pantheon should ever need to be tanky? does this mean is should basically ditch the hexdrinker and rush a blood thirster after brutalizer?a build more like this? 2 dorans,brutalizer,phage,bloodthirster,GA,last whisper? My current early game items are usually 2 dorans, brutalizer, phage, hexdrinker and the only reason i get the frozen mallet is for the health so that i dont just get raped late game because im melee and im ulting on top of 4 people lol. If you know a better build then what i have early or late can u plz post it.
My build is more focus on building more effective health rather than stacking the health pool, which will be more effective if you have a little bit of lifesteal or heal from your support.

Frozen mallet + Atma + Hexdrink seems like a waste for me, although it allows pantheon to stick on top of the target, Pantheon doesn't have the damage to take down the enemy if he is building that. (It is true that you have higher eHP, however) Hexdrinker with GA + BT build on the other hand, have much more AD. Even though you have less eHP, each point that you are healing or lifestealing back worth much more. The GA also make the enemy rage, especially during mid-late game, where the enemy ranged AD haven't fully built with crit or armor pen.


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ExecutionerK

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Senior Member

07-29-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by darkarcher1 View Post
do you have any tip on nault jungle?
Naut jungle is pretty powerful, at early level you should time and use the shield before you reach the camp, so that you will effectively control the cooldown. His ultimate also allow him to dive really well, so when you are ganking you can always go from the lane brush, ult, and use your hook to bring them back.

Naut has a relatively high damage without building for it as his skills are quite amazing. Most of the time you just need philo stone and HoG to stack some gold, then go tanky and use your skills for damage during mid game. One thing to note however is that you will feel like naut is really, really slow. Some people do put in some movement quints to make him go faster.


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Duhizy

Senior Member

07-31-2012

Question about the balance between harass and poke in the bot lane. When i first learned how to properly take advantage of the windows of free damage for poke i literally took ever possible opportunity to get the free damage when i played cait because i could safely maintain perfect cs and maximum poke at the same time both denying my enemy and averaging around 170 cs at 20 min when i played cait often as a counter pick. I soon realised that a champ with 550 range or lower would be forced to miss cs if they attempted to take every free damage opportunity inbetween cs with ezreal,graves,sivir being the exception because of the range of their abilities.

This basically left me a pretty simple transition for maintaining the cs/poke balance with everyone but corki and vayne. With corki i soon learned that similar to urgot, because my trade potential was so high i could basically stand closer to the minions and punish them if they got near and that maintaining the balance with him was basically as simple as proper warding and good mana control.

My issue then was vayne, i just cant manage a balance with her. Many top players is see choose to simply not push so that she has enough room at level 6 to hunt them down with ult focusing solely on farming but she also has the ability to time her Auto attacks at the same exact time as the enemy goes for a creep because of tumble; however because of the travel distance of her tumble going for the maximum damage in a trade usually results in missing at least 1 cs( i even saw doublelift miss 3 one time D. Playing my normal style with her i would average around 135 cs at 20 min but it seems that while it is low my enemies always seem to be low as well. While it sounds like a fair trade i lose the ability to end the game during the mid game like i can with a cait with 170 cs and an enemy that is much lower.

Vayne scales better late game i know but there should be a way for me to be able to get at least 150cs without spending the entire lane phase csing like everyone else does and not have my enemy get over 140 without any kills(assuming i dont get any). It just feels like vayne is the only one i cant do it with and no matter how much i play her it stays the same. Shes like draven imo she can choose to farm and carry but why waste such a high amount of trade damage when you can just take away half your enemies health with three attacks( draven is easier tho) and free farm for 20 sec.


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상자상자상자

Senior Member

07-31-2012

Hey, Ken. I reached level 20 and bought runes for Jungle Udyr, and found he lacked in his ganking ability. His only way to gank is to get the speed boost from Bear, and that's not for long. Is there a jungler you recommend that has good ganks and a decent clear speed? I was thinking of Amumu.


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ExecutionerK

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Senior Member

07-31-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by duhizy View Post
Question about the balance between harass and poke in the bot lane. When i first learned how to properly take advantage of the windows of free damage for poke i literally took ever possible opportunity to get the free damage when i played cait because i could safely maintain perfect cs and maximum poke at the same time both denying my enemy and averaging around 170 cs at 20 min when i played cait often as a counter pick. I soon realised that a champ with 550 range or lower would be forced to miss cs if they attempted to take every free damage opportunity inbetween cs with ezreal,graves,sivir being the exception because of the range of their abilities.

This basically left me a pretty simple transition for maintaining the cs/poke balance with everyone but corki and vayne. With corki i soon learned that similar to urgot, because my trade potential was so high i could basically stand closer to the minions and punish them if they got near and that maintaining the balance with him was basically as simple as proper warding and good mana control.

My issue then was vayne, i just cant manage a balance with her. Many top players is see choose to simply not push so that she has enough room at level 6 to hunt them down with ult focusing solely on farming but she also has the ability to time her Auto attacks at the same exact time as the enemy goes for a creep because of tumble; however because of the travel distance of her tumble going for the maximum damage in a trade usually results in missing at least 1 cs( i even saw doublelift miss 3 one time D. Playing my normal style with her i would average around 135 cs at 20 min but it seems that while it is low my enemies always seem to be low as well. While it sounds like a fair trade i lose the ability to end the game during the mid game like i can with a cait with 170 cs and an enemy that is much lower.

Vayne scales better late game i know but there should be a way for me to be able to get at least 150cs without spending the entire lane phase csing like everyone else does and not have my enemy get over 140 without any kills(assuming i dont get any). It just feels like vayne is the only one i cant do it with and no matter how much i play her it stays the same. Shes like draven imo she can choose to farm and carry but why waste such a high amount of trade damage when you can just take away half your enemies health with three attacks( draven is easier tho) and free farm for 20 sec.
Basic skill stuff, can't really help you much on that.


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ExecutionerK

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Senior Member

07-31-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by YTDerpaaa View Post
Hey, Ken. I reached level 20 and bought runes for Jungle Udyr, and found he lacked in his ganking ability. His only way to gank is to get the speed boost from Bear, and that's not for long. Is there a jungler you recommend that has good ganks and a decent clear speed? I was thinking of Amumu.
Lee Sin. He is good with 2 strong gap closers, has built in sustain, and decent clear speed. He also doesn't rely on buffs as well.