What are Yorick's counters? And what can Yorick do to counter the counters?

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Ginga

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Senior Member

01-11-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by RapidOffensive View Post
You should be pretty tanky though no? LS assumes they have no cc which is unlikely if they are whaling on you.
AD is key for him but surely Manumume + Sheen/TF means you are hitting super hard already?

And end game Yorick probably has Manumune/TF/Frozen/Veil (and/or maybe Visage or Hexdrinker), possibly a Warmogs/Guardian Angel etc...you will also likely have your ult up - if the opposing teams spend all their cc and dmg output killing you twice over (three times with a Guardian up) when you have that much tankage wtf are your carries going to be doing to them in the meantime?
Huh, you know, I never thought of building Guardian Angel on him.

I've been thinking of holding off on TF and building Warmogs, and then Atma's on him first for survivability. Not sure when I should give him Guardian Angel though.


Mind telling me what your build order is? I always rush Manamune and then Merc Treads first.


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Afgani Annie

Senior Member

01-11-2012

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Originally Posted by Ginga View Post
Huh, you know, I never thought of building Guardian Angel on him.

I've been thinking of holding off on TF and building Warmogs, and then Atma's on him first for survivability. Not sure when I should give him Guardian Angel though.


Mind telling me what your build order is? I always rush Manamune and then Merc Treads first.
I have a lot of games played on yorick. I constantly see ppl rushing hp items and dmg. The first thing you want is a tear and then you build to counter your lane. If it's ad then frozen heart (or just the shroud) and if it's ap then sv. After this you finish out your manamune/boots then build the other cdr item (frozen heart of sv, whichever you have not built). Now you're tanky and can spam ghouls. Remember cdr is important which is why you don't rush tf or atmogs. Ghouls = less dmg taken and more dmg done. Alright, so you have 3 items now, boots and 2 cdr's so this is 38% cdr iirc. The majority of the time I will buy a giants belt and then sheen after which i finish out warmogs and then atma's... your last item finished should be TF. TF is nice but rarely should you build it before cdr/tanky items. Zeal is sorta meh, malet is ok b/c slow but you have w... the only thing that's rly great about TF is sheen. The other two items and the cumulative bonus's are just mediocre on yorrick.

Edit: This appears to be 7 items lolz. I usually don't build the atmas. I'm used to saying those 2 pieces together.


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LancerXXX

Senior Member

01-11-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by CroakerX View Post
I'll start off by saying that I almost exclusively play Yorick. I agree with the people who said that Yorick doesn't have any specific counters at solo top. With Yorick I can start solo top with a Meki Pendant and a ward, as I don't need pots to sustain or keep harassing.

That being said, Yorick does have a couple of people I consider counters from the enemy jungle.
Rammus and Skarner roll right past your wards and are in your face before you can gtfo. How do you counter them? Place your ward further out. Keep wards out. Never stop the wards. If you have the lane warded, you should have no issues with your sustain top and be able to harass constantly.

BONUS SECTION:

Akali: Every time you see her, hit her with everything you can. Last time I played an akali I ended up with 169 CS while she had 23 as she couldn't. Do. Anything. She doesn't have the sustain at level 1 to keep up with you, and you can safely farm from behind her minions to keep her from even last hitting with Mark of the Assassin.

Nasus: Same as akali. Don't let him get to minions.

Cho'Gath: If you can, kill him right away. If you don't, you won't be able to stop his free farm (which is alright, as you usually scale better into the late game).

Tryndamere: If he spins to you, hit him with WEQ. If he pursues and isn't low, run; if he runs away, chase and keep auto-ing him.

Irelia: You won't keep her from farming. Keep your lane warded and get every minion.

Garen: Don't let him run up to you at levels 1 and 2. If he ever tries to after that, use all of your ghouls and just whale on him, he'll drop so much faster than you. If he's staying far back in lane just waiting for his passive to come on, toss a W back towards him to chase him around and knock off his passive.

Renekton: Don't have minions between yourself and him or he will E to you. Harrass like crazy so he's forced to use his fury on cull the meek to sustain.

Udyr: He's harder to stop farming than irelia. Just keep those wards out in the river.

Talon: HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Do the same thing as akali and he'll be forced to recall or die every 2 minutes.

Singed: Hit him with all 3 ghouls and start whaling on him every time he tries to poison trail farm your creeps.

Gangplank: You come out ahead on harass starting level 2. Do so.

Ezreal, Kennen: I saw somebody suggest these, and I would just like to say: THEY ARE VERY WRONG. Skillshot champions are actually COUNTERED by Yorick, as he can just throw an E between Ez/Kennen and Yorick/Yorick's team, effectively making their skillshots useless as they just hit ghouls.

Trundle: Same as Udyr and Irelia.

Malph:
"Malphite is a pretty good counter to Yorick surprisingly. A Malph that takes 2 health pots and a meki and focuses on Shard can beat Yorick.

The reason is because of his passive shield which regens so quickly and takes a lot of the sting out of Yoricks W/Es. It also has pretty good range such that Yorick can only usually get off the AoE W and not land the E...mostly cuz Malphs Q will slow Yorick and speed up malph.

Yorick does heal with his E but a Malph with an early Chalice and maxed shard CAN trade blows with Yorick and come out ahead.

Its not a bad spot for Malphite either who either jungles or takes top solo. It helps ensure that you have a pretty strong initiator/tanky guy."
The way I see it, this guy is completely right. HOWEVER, you can counter him as Yorick by doing the same things I said to do as Udyr, Irelia, Trundle. If the malphite DOES build chalice, he'll be 900 gold behind just because he wanted to harass a Yorick in lane? *laughs hysterically*

"In instances where I push them to their turret, should I still harass or farm the two golems in the team jungle?" You forgot the best option: Kill the turret. If you have enough minions, their attacks will do more damage to themselves than to you, and the sooner you kill their turret the sooner you can run around the map harassing their jungler, pushing down other turrets, helping secure dragon.

"My W is AoE, so I occasionally hit enemy ranged minions in an attempt to harass. This won't kill them, but they weaken the ranged minions by a bit, giving my own minions an advantage and pushing. And because of my harass, my enemies won't be farming as often as I will be too, further giving my own minions more pushing power. I often find myself wasting mana to scout the lower bush with my W."

Either try to cast W in a place where it doesn't hit the minions or wait 1 or 2 seconds until they're out of the minions. As far as scouting the lower bush with W goes, don't. Nobody there will worry you. If you know where in the bush they are, hit move forward as if to farm then turn to the bush and hit them with everything.

BONUS BONUS SECTION:
If the enemy stays near their bushes to run in when you harass them, try to cast W as close to the bush as possible so that the ghoul is in the bush and sticks with him, then grab him with E
Sorry for quoting a 'wall' of text, but I noticed you didn't put Maokai there. And Maokai > Yorick. How?

If you try to harass Maokai, he throws a Q behind him and doesn't care, then heals it all with his passive.

If you try to spam everything on Maokai, he puts down his ultimate and bursts you harder (Sapling damage OP).

If you turret hug against Maokai because he'll kill you if you walk away from the turret, he pushes hard to the turret with his OP Saplings, throws down his ultimate and calmly whacks at the turret. If you try to damage him, it will all be reduced and reflected (then he'll add that to his burst and kill you).

Oh, and Maokai can greatly assist his jungler with a gank. Ever tried to get away from a 650 range 1-2 second snare/gap-closer, a 200 ranged knockback (that's towards his turret, because you've been snared for 1-2 seconds so you can't avoid it)/20-48% slow, and whatever CC the jungler has? Oh, did I mention the ~600 damage burst Maokai has right off the bat?

Even Yorick can't heal through Maokai's burst - 400 or so damage every 12 seconds. Yes it drains mana, but it takes more HP.


- A Maokai Player (who faced a Yorick yesterday)


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CroakerX

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01-11-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by LancerXXX View Post
Sorry for quoting a 'wall' of text, but I noticed you didn't put Maokai there. And Maokai > Yorick. How?

If you try to harass Maokai, he throws a Q behind him and doesn't care, then heals it all with his passive.

If you try to spam everything on Maokai, he puts down his ultimate and bursts you harder (Sapling damage OP).

If you turret hug against Maokai because he'll kill you if you walk away from the turret, he pushes hard to the turret with his OP Saplings, throws down his ultimate and calmly whacks at the turret. If you try to damage him, it will all be reduced and reflected (then he'll add that to his burst and kill you).

Oh, and Maokai can greatly assist his jungler with a gank. Ever tried to get away from a 650 range 1-2 second snare/gap-closer, a 200 ranged knockback (that's towards his turret, because you've been snared for 1-2 seconds so you can't avoid it)/20-48% slow, and whatever CC the jungler has? Oh, did I mention the ~600 damage burst Maokai has right off the bat?

Even Yorick can't heal through Maokai's burst - 400 or so damage every 12 seconds. Yes it drains mana, but it takes more HP.


- A Maokai Player (who faced a Yorick yesterday)
Your points are all legitimate and I see where you're coming from. However, I don't agree.

First of all, I generally treat Mao the same way I said I treat Udyr; namely, I farm and ignore them. That being said, no, a Mao would not kill me. Why?

1. I run HP Regen/5 quints.
2. Omen of Famine every 5 seconds gets you back to full hp in about 15 seconds.
3. Maokai's burst isn't nearly enough to burst down a Yorick to half health, much less none. Especially because I run
4. Magic Resist glyphs (and masteries).
5. I won't be near you if you get a gank. As I said, I place a lot of wards and make sure they're far enough out to avoid the jungler.
6. Mao does not have unlimited mana; you act as if he does. You can't use all three spells every 12 seconds, and even if you can, so can yorick.
7. If you sapling me, advance me, and smash me, and I famine you, pestilence you, and war you, I will come out with much less hp loss than you.
8. Omen of Famine every 5 seconds heals for much, much, much more than 7% of Mao's hp every 5 spells.
9. If you try to harass me in lane with sapling, I'll press T (my hotkey for laugh) cast an E where the sapling landed, and have the sapling blow up on the ghoul (doing nothing to me)
10. Even if you do get me low, I can just teleport back out again right away.

Let me go add this to my wall of text now please.


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IS1eae7cbb510cc9b1e2028

Senior Member

01-12-2012

Maokai is a tough nut to crack, no way around it. His passive is just **** good when yorick is around. If it wasn't for that passive, there was nothing maokai would be able to do.

Agreed, the first thing yorick must build is the Tear. No way around it. Remember to W+Q when you just bought it. 2 stacks for free

I'm running Yorick with MS quints. That little boost is all yorick needs to get out of the worst of situations alive. Somewhere along the way, i'm also picking up FoN. Now he's a speedy mo-fo already. Earlier someone said TF is pretty expensive as it's all bad statistics.
My opinion: TF is godlike, but sheen is the most important asset of it. So if you are really having a good time, an early TF can be done, else invest in defensive items first. The full TF is indeed too expensive for the stuff it gives, but the sheen is pretty cheap and really helps bringing the hurt. Just finish TF last in that case. And really, if i'm really having a tough time, i'll even skip the sheen.

MS Quints + Boots 2 + FoN + TF > 460 MS(!!!!) Add in Q and it's over 540. Exhausting brings it only back to 410(lol). I've had Yi's cry OP because even highlander couldn't catch up. With this i'm very comfortable pushing the lane solo. Even if a gank is coming, i'll be long and far away by the time they are there. Even if they had the drop on me, i've come out alive because of the slow and Q. Don't underestimate movementspeed if it's a completely silly number, it can be a weapon in itself.

Question for the pro's regarding sheen/TF: Does the increase of yoricks passive help in the proc? (so 100% of base damage + 10% extra because 2 minions out, or simply just base damage(still increased, just not double). Even so, I'll always try to Q when there is at least 2 minions out(W+E) for the increased damage.

Eface became Yorick main when Dominion came out, fell in love with him immediatly. Brought him into SR. He's just as much a beast in SR as in Dominion.


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RapidOffensive

Senior Member

01-12-2012

Yes - first item Tear, second item Mercs or CDR Boots, then it's situational:

At this point if you need armor badly get it (and build to Glacial for the CDR)
If you need more MR then Visage or Hexdrinker
But usually (90% of the time) you don't and can grab Sheen.

Again then assess the situation - if you need defensive items get them accordingly, if you don't you can run straight to Manamune.

4200 earned gold is still quite early if you are bossing your lane and Sheen + Manamune is going to mean that you (with your ghouls in tow) are hitting champs and towers really hard.

In any case Glacial is a key item and should be grabbed next if you haven't already.

Against heavy AD teams build this up to Frozen right away.

MR items is next - you have a good choice here. If you went with CDR boots you probably are going to need a Veil at least to limit their cc. If you have Mercs then a cheaper item like Hexdrinker (+AD is good) or Spirit Visage (CDR is good) might do instead.

A core will tend to be something like Mercs/Manamune/Frozen/Sheen/Veil.

You can finish off TF is you like or grab Warmogs or more Armor or MR if their team is especially heavy one way or the other...game is usually over by then anyway...


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IS1eae7cbb510cc9b1e2028

Senior Member

01-12-2012

So basically, yoricks 2 core items are the Manamune and the Glacial Shroud. I'm always picking up the Glacial as soon as possible, but very often leave the upgrade into Frozen Heart for later.

This because I'm usually running CDR boots, combined with Flat CDR blue's and the offensive mastery. With the Glacial Shroud i'm at 39.89% cdr. Finishing Manamune, cdr boots and Glacial is usually my top priority, but if i'm having a hard time against magic damage, i'll be getting FoN first, then get glacial.

From there on out it's 100% situational. Just build to counter


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Ginga

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Senior Member

01-12-2012

So I noticed no one mentioned Warmog and Atmogs. Are those two items unimportant for Yorick? They do add quite a bit of survivability and damage to him. Is it inefficient for Yorick?


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MoneyJr

Senior Member

01-12-2012

When laning against Yorick stay near the set of bushes up top. If he sends his ghouls after you, step in the bushes & you'll drop aggro.

I haven't faced many Yorick but the key is to get on him early & try to deny him. He is like Cho in a sense that there is a critical mass point in lane & after that good luck moving them.


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Gunflame

Senior Member

01-12-2012

Best Counters to Yorick.
- Ryze: You gotta be extremely good though.. Yorick's W barely has the same range as Ryze's Q. If Ryze is good, he will make you eat 2-3 Qs in the time you can only cast 1 W. Again I have only seen it done once, he was a very good ryze

- Riven:
She is a PAIN... I often get first blood on her, go back to base and return with tear, a ward and some pots. But I still can't free farm and I like. She is just a HUGEEEEEE PAIN. The strongest counter I have found. I just try to sit back, keep myself healed and use my spells to last hit. If I push the lane, I die

- Long Range AoE casters: Brand, Xerath, Lux can do OK vs yorick, they are not real counter but they can manage.