RoA and Casters, numbers crunched

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SuicidalPankake

Senior Member

07-15-2010

The Rod of Ages is seen as a must-have in many caster guides, but why? It starts off quite weak for a 3035 gold item. Lets take a look:
Initial equip//Full power
+380 HP//650 HP
+425 Mana//725 Mana
+50 AP//80 AP
Passive: Your Champion gains 18 Health, 20 Mana, and 2 Ability Power every 1 min. Bonuses cap at +270 Health, +300 Mana, and +30 Ability Power.
So, 15 minutes for your item to reach its full potential. Thats quite a bit to be waiting in this game just to get what you paid for.

Now, lets look instead at other item combinations.

Tear of the Goddess: 980 Gold
+350 Mana
+5 Mana Regen (per 5)
Unique Passive: Each time your Champion uses an Ability their Maximum Mana will increase by 4 Mana. This effect has a 3 second cooldown, max cap is 1000 mana. Starts out at a lower mana boost, but you can get it sooner and by the time you would've had that RoA, your mana gain will be much higher than a measly 425. Also, leads into the Archangel's Staff.

Giant's Belt: 1110 Gold
+430 health
Provides more of an immediate boost to HP, you can afford this sooner than RoA, and leads into Rylai's Crystal Scepter.

Include a blasting wand (which is required for RoA, but also for more important items) for 860 gold, and you have +40 AP.

So, you end up with more mana, more health, and only 10 less AP, for 2950 gold (85 less than RoA). Sounds decent, but lets look at upgrades:

Archangel's Staff: Uses Tear of the Goddess and Blasting Wand (which we already have). Total cost: 2890 gold. Upgrade from current items: 1050 gold
+400 Mana
+25 Mana Regen (per 5)
+45 Ability Power
3% of your Max Mana is converted to Ability Power
(Same unique passive as Tear of the Goddess)
It would take roughly 1166 mana to get the extra 35 AP to put it on par with RoA, which most casters will have by the time they get this.

Rylai's Crystal Scepter: Uses Giant's Belt, Blasting Wand, and Amplifying Tome (we have the belt). Total cost: 3105. Cost of BW(860) + AT(435) + upgrade cost(700)= 1995 gold
+550 Health
+80 Ability Power
Passive: Your spell hits slow the target's movement speed by 35% for 1.5 seconds (15% for multi-target spells).

The total costs of Archangel's and Rylais is 5995 gold. RoA is 3035 gold to buy, and after 15 minutes it is 1.5x stronger. So, if you judge that in terms of gold, 3035 + (3035 x .5) =4552 gold. So the AA/Rylai combo is 1443 more gold, and it gives: 100 less HP (trivial), 675 more mana, 5 mana regen/sec, 45 more AP, and two unique passives (spell slow and additional AP).

tl;dr - Instead of grabbing a Rod of Ages like most guides say, get Tear of the Goddess, Giant's belt, and a Blasting wand to have the same survivability and be able to buy Archangel's Staff and Rylai's Scepter sooner, and free up an inventory space for better items (Zhonyas, void staff, what have you)

Anything I'm missing?


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Matuk

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Senior Member

07-15-2010

While it's generally a bad idea to get more than one: RoA is not a unique passive.

Just a fun thing to do if you're bored, or out of ideas for what item to get next.

On a serious note: the 15 minute wait for RoA to hit max bonuses is the reason I'm able to buy RoA, then buy a Guardian Angel on Cho'gath. The HP, mana, and AP slowly rising up in the time it takes to buy my second item allows me to ignore those stats for the next item.


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SuicidalPankake

Senior Member

07-15-2010

At base, theyre 2960 gold more. I was counting the 15 minute charge time for RoA as a gold value. Since the values gained are roughly half of the initial bonuses, i added 1517 (half of 3035) to 3035, since time is money and all. That makes the total cost 4552, and the Rylai/AA combo (2 items that most casters plan to get anyway, in my experience) is 5995 gold. 5995-4552=1443.

And the main point I'm trying to make here is that going a certain build order will give the same bonuses as a RoA without having to buy a 15 minute charge up item. I noticed that there were more items i wanted to get that would power my late game better than the RoA did, so I was trying to come up with a way to remove it from my inventory without sacrificing survivability. Sorry for any confusion.


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Matuk

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Senior Member

07-15-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuicidalPankake View Post
At base, theyre 2960 gold more. I was counting the 15 minute charge time for RoA as a gold value.
You shouldn't. You get those bonuses for free.

It's not really meant to "power-up" your late game. I think it's an early game item that can be useful through mid game because of the passive bonuses you gain from it.
I wouldn't go so far as to call it a useful late game item, because late game takes more than 15 minutes to happen.


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SuicidalPankake

Senior Member

07-15-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matuk View Post
You shouldn't. You get those bonuses for free.
Yes, but gradually, over time. Imagine if thornmail gave you 50 armor now, and 2 armor per minute with a max bonus of 50 armor. The lower initial armor could very well cost your life, cost a team fight, and cost the game in some situations.

Besides, usually casters dont have as much trouble farming as other classes, so usually it isnt going to take 15 minutes to raise 1443 (or heck, even ~3k if you insist that the 15 minutes isnt a hindrance) for superior stats.


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Matuk

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Senior Member

07-15-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuicidalPankake View Post
Yes, but gradually, over time. Imagine if thornmail gave you 50 armor now, and 2 armor per minute with a max bonus of 50 armor. The lower initial armor could very well cost your life, cost a team fight, and cost the game in some situations.

Besides, usually casters dont have as much trouble farming as other classes, so usually it isnt going to take 15 minutes to raise 1443 (or heck, even ~3k if you insist that the 15 minutes isnt a hindrance) for superior stats.
Why would it be a hindrance?

The initial bonuses from RoA are pretty **** good, considering how quickly you can make it.

It's like saying the snowball items cost extra gold to make, because you don't get the real benefit from them until you're getting fed and farming champion-kill gold to begin with.


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SuicidalPankake

Senior Member

07-15-2010

You can make it quickly, yes, but long before it reaches full power, you can use the gold saved in NOT making it for what i consider to be a more powerful item combination.

Anyway, neither of us is getting anywhere with the other, it seems, so shall we agree to disagree? I would just like to add that when I changed to this from RoA build with Annie I did much better early, mid, and late game, as did one of my friends who plays Ryze. Thanks for the input, at any rate.


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EchoRex

Senior Member

07-15-2010

RoA is a great item choice mainly due to the lane presence a Catalyst gives you, survivability, health and mana replenishment.

Then you take an RoA before 20min after using it to stay in lane/small camps and farm quickly.

Then you are gaining most, if not all, of the HP you need for a build plus the mana to support an extended fight.

A much more expensive build to accomplish most of the same things does not compare in benefit:cost and, most importantly, in early/mid game lane presence.


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Matuk

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Senior Member

07-15-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuicidalPankake View Post
You can make it quickly, yes, but long before it reaches full power, you can use the gold saved in NOT making it for what i consider to be a more powerful item combination.

Anyway, neither of us is getting anywhere with the other, it seems, so shall we agree to disagree? I would just like to add that when I changed to this from RoA build with Annie I did much better early, mid, and late game, as did one of my friends who plays Ryze. Thanks for the input, at any rate.
You're just really exaggerating the cost, as if the gold you gain in the next 15 minutes is added to the cost. It costs 2160 to get 380 HP, 425 mana, and 50 AP in a single item slot. Not to mention how awesome Catalyst is for laning.
It then gets boosted to 650 HP, 725 mana, and 80 AP in a single item for free.

I don't think even your chosen items really match that cost effectiveness.
Don't forget that Archangel's Staff takes time to build up as well, it's not an immediate extra 1000 gold. It costs 2260 gold for more mana, more AP, but less HP. It's more of an offensive late-game item.


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SuicidalPankake

Senior Member

07-15-2010

Rod of Ages is 3035, unless it was changed very recently and the information I used is outdated... if so then it needs to be updated.


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