Pure Builds... Why?

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Entomy

Member

01-01-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grukasa View Post
Back in the days of DotA, I used to get bracers or some sort of damage mitigation item on EVERY hero. In League of Legends, two things have happened to me:
1. Heroes are more durable
2. I'm better at positioning

These have contributed to overall reduce the amount of mitigation I buy in a game. Obviously if someone's getting stupidly fed, I put some defense into my build, but there are lots of heroes whose best defense, frankly, is their mobility.
Yes, I do this when I play Janna, as her movment speed is exceptional. However, I see melee units building pure damage.


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Entomy

Member

01-01-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by ForeverLaxx View Post
If you're a melee anything, then you're going to be getting defense no matter what, so they clearly aren't the champions that you're talking about. This leaves ranged AP and support champions.
Clearly aren't? Oh no, they are. I've seen pure builds used for just about anything. Including building tanky characters as damage.

Quote:
A lot of AP items have durability somewhere built in. Abyssal Sceptre, Hourglass, Will of the Ancients, Rod of Ages, Rylais, etc. You almost can't avoid picking up one of these items if you want the most AP possible, so even "glass cannon AP" has some kind of in-built survivability unless you're stacking AA Staves and Deathcaps, which is a really bad idea by the way.
Strange, I usually don't see these, despite me using them fairly often.

Quote:
That leaves supports. Supports generally build boots and gold/10 items, picking up an aura or two if they have the time between wards and oracles. Now, these auras provide some kind of durability since usually they pick up an Aegis, but no one is going to pretend that a single Aegis is actual durability. Supports though are just like ranged AD in that they rely on their team to protect them so they can do their thing. They don't need items to perform their role, which is why they prioritize wards and items that increase gold generation so they can get these wards, since they generally aren't killing any minions.
I almost never see supports, which is a shame. I see so little cooperation in a cooperative game. Been flammed a lot for "kill stealing" in a team fight.

Quote:
If you're seeing people that play things that aren't Ranged AD or Supports as "pure" whatever, then they're playing wrong or they're playing a specific champion like Riven. She gets survivability from raw AD thanks to her shield, but even she'll usually build a GA at some point to supplement it.
That's what I thought. Since I bought Udyr I've been playing him almost constantly, and the best build archetype I've seen for him revolves around a lot of diversity. All damage, and he's too squishy, all defense and he can't kill. But a mix of the two, and he rips through things while still being hard to kill. The loss of damage output, for putting a few defensive items on was minor, but the survivability bonus was significant.


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ForeverLaxx

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Senior Member

01-01-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Entomy View Post
Clearly aren't? Oh no, they are. I've seen pure builds used for just about anything. Including building tanky characters as damage.



Strange, I usually don't see these, despite me using them fairly often.



I almost never see supports, which is a shame. I see so little cooperation in a cooperative game. Been flammed a lot for "kill stealing" in a team fight.



That's what I thought. Since I bought Udyr I've been playing him almost constantly, and the best build archetype I've seen for him revolves around a lot of diversity. All damage, and he's too squishy, all defense and he can't kill. But a mix of the two, and he rips through things while still being hard to kill. The loss of damage output, for putting a few defensive items on was minor, but the survivability bonus was significant.
It sounds like you're either not playing at max level, or you're stuck playing with a bunch of people that never learned how the game works. Melee AD that build no survivability, no supports ever, AA Staff/Deathcap stackers, etc.


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Sonicdahedgie

Member

01-02-2012

Entomy, you can stop posting now. You're obviously not listening to anything we're saying. You asked us why people always go for pure builds, and multiple people gave you the answer. Instead of taking your answer and leaving, you're saying, "No, you're all wrong. I know what I'm talking about, so listen to me."

Everyone plays this game like this for a reason. If I really wanted, I could do the calculus involved in proving it right. However, you aren't going to listen to anything we say, so why even bother.


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Junksie

Senior Member

01-02-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonicdahedgie View Post
Entomy, you can stop posting now. You're obviously not listening to anything we're saying. You asked us why people always go for pure builds, and multiple people gave you the answer. Instead of taking your answer and leaving, you're saying, "No, you're all wrong. I know what I'm talking about, so listen to me."

Everyone plays this game like this for a reason. If I really wanted, I could do the calculus involved in proving it right. However, you aren't going to listen to anything we say, so why even bother.
Agreed. If you ask a question, don't try to disprove the people giving you answers. We do it not because we have to, but because we like to. Please don't ruin that. Maybe mixing does work for you, but many others do better pure.


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DempseyUSMC

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Member

01-02-2012

attack speed IMHO has diminishing returns after 2.0 unless you get in a 1v1 with another melee char then sometimes who ever attacks faster can win, doesnt mean they will, but shyvana or skarner would definately have advantages over others in a 1v1 auto attack duel, simply because they can spam skills more often.

other champs, such as ranged ones dont really need a TON of attack speed, unless you're ashe with something like boots of swiffness 3 phantom dancers IE and last whisper! then you could just auto attack everything to death.. (keep Q on and watch them QQ) but of course you have no sustaine so if you're gank but 2 people you can be owned

but other champs such as vayne 1.5 is the highest attack speed ive ever ended with i think, with her because she has no AoE CC or slow ect. you need life leech high damage 350 or so i think ive had before and awsome tumbleing skills! and you can outlast anything point here both are so squishy especially vayne, really i think top life on her at 18 is 1800 or so so really its pointless to waste 3 item slots on an HP /armor /MR get my point? i would lose damage, crit, AS just so that i could live for 3 more seconds as it is usual for vayne to be target #1 in any team fight, so making my damage output as much as possible is much more applicable so that people will run in fear and i might LIVE


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Chingmeister

Senior Member

01-02-2012

Lifestealing 500+ hp/sec means you don't really need defensive gear.

Any melee that gap closes to you through your teammates will have needed defensive gear to live though your teammates, so you don't have to worry about them being able to kill you.

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/attachment.php?attachmentid=294299&d=1318408044


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Wolfalisk

Member

01-02-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Entomy View Post
Do explain how any champion doesn't need a little defense. I understand for stealth characters, but for nothing else does pure building make sense to me.
I will use LeBlanc as an example. LeBlanc is a one-trick pony, with one use to the team - single target burst. Any gold, whatsoever, that is not spent on pure AP or MPen, will severely affect her function. The ONLY health item that is acceptable for LeBlanc is Haunting Guise, since it gives AP, and, more importantly, MPen. It's still not a very good item though.

Even Rod of Ages cannot be justified for LeBlanc. And that's saying a lot - almost every AP in the game builds RoA as a core item.


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Entomy

Member

01-02-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonicdahedgie View Post
Entomy, you can stop posting now. You're obviously not listening to anything we're saying. You asked us why people always go for pure builds, and multiple people gave you the answer. Instead of taking your answer and leaving, you're saying, "No, you're all wrong. I know what I'm talking about, so listen to me."

Everyone plays this game like this for a reason. If I really wanted, I could do the calculus involved in proving it right. However, you aren't going to listen to anything we say, so why even bother.
I was given incomplete answers, or answers with logical fallacies. Forgive me for looking for some clarity. I am not satisfied with "because" as an answer.

I have been listening, and asking questions looking for more information. People min-max, or pure build, and I was wondering why. I'm trying to see if I'm missing something that could improve my game.

By what I see, building pure damage for ranged characters makes sense, as they can utilize movement speed and positioning to cover their defense (which I do with Janna and Twisted Fate). I'm still looking to understand why melee do pure-damage, and it seems like this has been answered with: unskilled.


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Entomy

Member

01-02-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by ForeverLaxx View Post
It sounds like you're either not playing at max level, or you're stuck playing with a bunch of people that never learned how the game works. Melee AD that build no survivability, no supports ever, AA Staff/Deathcap stackers, etc.
Sadly, I beleive both are correct. I'm at level 12 at the moment. I'm more or less stuck in groups of people spamming pure damage items, and raging all the time. It's very... it ruins the game environment. Been playing with friends when I can, but it's not often.