Switching from AP Carries

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13eakers

Member

12-30-2011

I've been playing LoL for quite some time now and am now a level 21, but I would still consider myself relatively new to the game. I started off playing Morgana and have had quite a lot of success going down the AP carry line, including Lux, Kassadin, Annie, Fiddlestick, and a few supports such as Janna and Soraka.

My problem is this: I have been trying to learn other champion styles, namely AD champs. I bought Shaco, and have played many free champs as they come along. I want to learn to play these champions, but I simply can't. I am never able to do as much damage as I see others doing and I know is possible, and I always die in teamfights practically as they begin.

What am I missing? I want specifically to be able to play offtank style champions, but even when I try to build offtank I get owned as soon as I get near their team.

I would appreciate just general tips; things like items I should be aware of and when to get certain items (as I suspect that this is a large part of the problem). Maybe tips on carrying as melee characters, or anything else you think might be of use.

Thanks.


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Kyoko Sakura

Senior Member

12-30-2011

Hmm, if you wanna start playing melee ad, Shaco isn't where to start at imo. Even though he is so annoying and a good ganker/jungler. If you wanna play bruisers, a good champion to start with is Garen. He is designed for people trying to learn the offtank genre. Try to build the generic atmogs/fratmogs. Also, Shaco is squishy as **** and doesn't work well as an offtank


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13eakers

Member

12-30-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by UnskilledFeeder View Post
Hmm, if you wanna start playing melee ad, Shaco isn't where to start at imo. Even though he is so annoying and a good ganker/jungler. If you wanna play bruisers, a good champion to start with is Garen. He is designed for people trying to learn the offtank genre. Try to build the generic atmogs/fratmogs. Also, Shaco is squishy as **** and doesn't work well as an offtank
I knew that about Shaco. Shaco looked fun so i bought him actually as my third champion I think, and don't play him too much anymore. I should try Garen i guess, but he looks kinda boring xD.

Also could you describe those generic builds?


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Ikrit122

Senior Member

12-30-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by 13eakers View Post
I know that. Shaco looked fun so i bought him actually as my third champion I think, and don't play him too much anymore. I should try Garen i guess, but he looks kinda boring xD.

Also could you describe those generic builds?
Frozen Mallet/Warmog's Armor and Atma's Impaler

The idea is that the former two give you lots of health to survive in fights, and the Atma's gives you some armor and crit, but more importantly it gives you AD equal to 2% of your health. It is a powerful combo for champions that don't require lots of AD to be effective, such as Garen. Yoummu's Ghostblade would be another item to add to that list because of all of the stats it gives to AD champs, plus the active ability on it is lengthened by melee attacks.

Garen is a good example because he is only 1350 IP and he is rather simple to play. Other bruisers like Irelia, Riven, and Udyr are a bit harder to play, though these characters are generally easier than carries because of the stronger early-games, plus the fact that you have more health and defenses than the carries.

The trick to squishy AD champs (carries such as Ashe, Graves, and Caitlyn, and assassins such as Shaco) is good positioning. As a ranged carry, you want to be in the back of your team, hitting whichever target you can. Preferably, you want to hit their carry or AP carry, since these guys deal the most damage. However, if you can't reach them for some reason, either reposition safely, or attack the nearest enemy champ. Your job is to deal damage.

As Shaco, you want to wait until the fight starts, then jump in to gank their damage-dealers. Hopefully, you can deal enough damage to either kill them or drive them away so they can't deal any damage to your team. If you get attacked, you disengage and get away. If their carry diverts his attention to chasing you (which should be pointless, as you have your Deceive and Jack-in-the-Box), then that is damage he isn't doing to your carries.


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13eakers

Member

12-30-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ikrit122 View Post
Frozen Mallet/Warmog's Armor and Atma's Impaler

The idea is that the former two give you lots of health to survive in fights, and the Atma's gives you some armor and crit, but more importantly it gives you AD equal to 2% of your health. It is a powerful combo for champions that don't require lots of AD to be effective, such as Garen. Yoummu's Ghostblade would be another item to add to that list because of all of the stats it gives to AD champs, plus the active ability on it is lengthened by melee attacks.

Garen is a good example because he is only 1350 IP and he is rather simple to play. Other bruisers like Irelia, Riven, and Udyr are a bit harder to play, though these characters are generally easier than carries because of the stronger early-games, plus the fact that you have more health and defenses than the carries.

The trick to squishy AD champs (carries such as Ashe, Graves, and Caitlyn, and assassins such as Shaco) is good positioning. As a ranged carry, you want to be in the back of your team, hitting whichever target you can. Preferably, you want to hit their carry or AP carry, since these guys deal the most damage. However, if you can't reach them for some reason, either reposition safely, or attack the nearest enemy champ. Your job is to deal damage.

As Shaco, you want to wait until the fight starts, then jump in to gank their damage-dealers. Hopefully, you can deal enough damage to either kill them or drive them away so they can't deal any damage to your team. If you get attacked, you disengage and get away. If their carry diverts his attention to chasing you (which should be pointless, as you have your Deceive and Jack-in-the-Box), then that is damage he isn't doing to your carries.
Ok thank you. A lot of these items are things I haven't done anything with and I don't know much about, because as I've said my previous experience was with the AP champs. I knew about Atma's but I've never got it, so that is certainly something I should try. I've got Warmog's before (like once) and I feel like that is something I should do more especially with Atma's damage. Frozen Mallet I have never gotten but certainly should. Ghostblade I ussually get but I've never taken it too seriously because the stats, while plentiful, seem kind of low, especially since armor pen is the only thing on this that scales my abilities, thus I always take it somewhat late. Is this something I should change? Are abilities that much less important on AD champs?

I've actually been playing Irelia this week (since she's free) and she's the first AD / offtank I've had much success with, but I still don't feel like I'm doing as much damage as I know she should do. I leap in and do some good damage in 1v1 or even 2v2 or sometimes 3v3, but beyond that I tend to melt, even if I wait for the fight to start before I jump in.


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cole742

Junior Member

12-30-2011

I started out playing garen when i first played the game he is an amazing champ to learn from definatly buy him.


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Lux Eternus

Senior Member

12-30-2011

Alright, this is actually a really good question. I play Ezreal as a AD champ, and also trying out champs like Lee Sin and Jarven IV. (Yes these are all 6300 IP champs). My standard combo with Ezreal is Build Mundamane (if thats how you spell it), buying it in pieces whenever you go to base. This increases your mana every time you cast a spell by 4, to a max of 1000. Then, it also gives you attack damage based on 3% of your total mana, so scales well into late game. It also gives you a base attack which i cant remember, i believe its 30?

Then i go straight into building Madred's Bloodravor. This gives you 23 armour, 40 attack speed, 30 attack damage, but most importantly does 4% of the targets maximum health as bonus damage, so great for countering the enemy tank, or pretty much anyone.

If i am playing a non mana heavy AD character, i always build Bloodrazor first, with getting madreads RAZORs first to allow to farm better with a 25%(?) chance of dealing massive damage to minions, this allows you more minion kills, quicker. If you are really good at last hitting, and don't have the need to push the lane, then another item may be more useful.

If playing a ranged AD carry (like Ezreal) i don't really worry about health, and stack heavy damage items like infinity edge and phatom dancers, which is a 55% chance of doing 250% attack damage, whch is usually sitting in the 200's, then an extra 4%. Playing Ezreal this means that essentially every second attack is doing about 700 damage. With about a 1.5 attack speed, i killed an ashe (same level) in 2 seconds.

However with a close combat character, i strong recommend the above stated by Ikrit122, apart from frozen mallet. I know it was stated that its useful for characters that don't require alot of AD to be useful, so bare in mind that's way i'm stating a different combo. I don't like the weapon much, but thats because the characters i use all have abilities to chase the enemy, and i'd rather spend the gold on more attack damage then just 20. Just my 2 cents. Good luck with the AD characters!

-IAmYourAlly


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Dera Mochimazzi

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Senior Member

12-30-2011

Its probably the same problems i have.
Positioning and farming like crazy. If you position yourself badly in teamfights, you'll be the first to get focused.


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netkitten

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Senior Member

12-30-2011

i have the almost same problem and i bought nidalee. she can be easily switched between ranged aa and melee aa, her best (it seems from solomid and this forum) build is tanky dps but you can build her ap too, she has AS buffing heal (this spell should be maxed first for lane sustain) so you can help your teammates, also she has a very good long ranged skillshot (ap nidalee is especially deadly with it)
and it's fun to gnaw and scratch somebody as a puma :3


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TwistWrist

Senior Member

12-31-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by IAmYourAlly View Post
...My standard combo with Ezreal is Build Mundamane (if thats how you spell it), buying it in pieces whenever you go to base...
Do NOT do this. It has a base attack of 20. If you had 1000 mana when you finish it, then you'll have 40 attack damage for 2110 gold. Just buy a BF sword for 45 attack damage.

Quote:
Then i go straight into building Madred's Bloodravor. This gives you 23 armour, 40 attack speed, 30 attack damage, but most importantly does 4% of the targets maximum health as bonus damage, so great for countering the enemy tank, or pretty much anyone.
Also a bad idea. MBR is a highly situational item. It isn't even a tank killer because most tanks are smart enough to build MR.

Going Wriggles for sustain is an option for some champs.

Quote:
If playing a ranged AD carry (like Ezreal) i don't really worry about health, and stack heavy damage items like infinity edge and phatom dancers, which is a 55% chance of doing 250% attack damage, whch is usually sitting in the 200's, then an extra 4%.
Would not build that on Ezreal either. Works fine on other AD ranged carries that have more range and/or steroids but Ezreal really depends on his Q spam. A Sheen to late Trinity Force fits better. Plus, his Q can't crit.

Would go for Sheen, Bloodthirster(s), and Last Whisper on Ezreal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IAmYourAlly View Post
I don't like the weapon much, but thats because the characters i use all have abilities to chase the enemy, and i'd rather spend the gold on more attack damage then just 20.
You don't go Frozen Mallet for the 20 AD...you go Frozen Mallet for the guaranteed slow and health. You need health for Atma's.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 13eakers View Post
Ghostblade I ussually get but I've never taken it too seriously because the stats, while plentiful, seem kind of low, especially since armor pen is the only thing on this that scales my abilities, thus I always take it somewhat late. Is this something I should change? Are abilities that much less important on AD champs?
You build Ghostblade for the active. If you feel you need an attack speed increase and move speed increase, then you go Ghostblade. Otherwise, you get a Brutalizer and stop. Many tanky DPS champs will get an early Brutalizer and sell it late game for better items.

Quote:
I've actually been playing Irelia this week (since she's free) and she's the first AD / offtank I've had much success with, but I still don't feel like I'm doing as much damage as I know she should do. I leap in and do some good damage in 1v1 or even 2v2 or sometimes 3v3, but beyond that I tend to melt, even if I wait for the fight to start before I jump in.
If you are melting as Irelia, then you probably didn't build her tanky enough. What is your build?


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