here to you vegetarians

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Lance Eliot

Senior Member

12-26-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by jdegloria View Post
you kill 25 times more animals than you would eating a regualar diet. good job.
Explain this statistic. You can make something up off the top of your head, but backing it up is important.


Personally, I feel that vegetarians are fine. It's not my cup of tea, because I HATE raw vegetables (I can only enjoy them if they have been cooked, especially if used in soup), but I respect that others may make a sacrifice in order to either meet a moral goal, a health goal, or both. I only dislike vegetarians who attempt to force their lifestyle on others (and the same goes for any group really).

That said, the girl I love is a vegetarian. I am proud of her for being able to make that decision a couple years ago and stay true to it for this long. And while I am an omnivore at the moment, I have been steadily attempting to work more vegetables into my diet, so that I might be able to more easily transition if I should ever find myself in a relationship with her. That is not to say that I think she'd force me to make that choice- I simply wish to make that choice myself as a form of sacrifice and to take a complication out of things. It's difficult. I love meat, especially seafood. By God, I love seafood, but such a sacrifice is worth it, I think.


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teamchuckles

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Member

12-26-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by enfabled mage View Post
fruitarains are the only people who care alot about living things.

Vegans are the ones that care about animals but not so much plants

vegetarains are the ones that don't like killing animals.
I couldn't tell you how many times I've had an omnivore sputter out the lines, "You don't eat meat? What about all the defenseless plants you kill?" It makes me want to hurl feces at nuns.

"Vegans are the ones that care about animals but not so much plants", that's really a strange way of putting it. The truth is that plants do not have a central nervous system, nor do they have brains to process any feelings like pain. Therefore, plants do not exist the way other animals do, so they essentially live the same as a bacteria or germ.

If that means nothing to the person asking why you don't care about plants, then you should give up because that person will never get it and should probably get back under the bridge and collect his troll toll, earn a small fortune and raise his little troll family comfortably and ignorantly blissful.


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krazykilla526

Senior Member

12-26-2011

Yes that is great logic


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Fern Knight

Member

12-26-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by VenerealxDisease View Post
Also it is not an argument, fallacies can only be identified in arguments as they are an error in logic. I was not making any point simply going through the economic causation. Sudden lose of demand means reduction of supply. There is now an excess in the components used to make the supply. The price of the components drops. The price drops forces certain suppliers out of business. Eventually everything stabilizes( do I need to go through all the economic chains?).

Slippery slope also does not deal with all causal chains only ones that do not bring about the conclusion.

Also you told someone that they could not link to authority because appealing to authority is wrong. In that you are incorrect. The fallacy is correctly called the appeal to False authority. You can use the words of a physicist when arguing for physics but you shouldn't use your pastor.

About your economic bit: Fair enough, I don't really know too much about economics, and if what I thought was a fallacy was not, then I was wrong on that point. But at least we agree that things would stabilize in the end. Thank you for pointing out my mistake.

As for the appeal to false authority, while I did abbreviate the term, I felt that the authority in question was false in the case I was referring to. A website with the purpose of promoting the beef industry is clearly biased for our purposes.


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Valfreya

Member

12-26-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by AHeroNamedHawke View Post
Rofl
Dat society propaganda
You do realize you dont need protein from meat? You can get it from other sources and be fine. Ask the triathlon vegans. Im not even a vegetarian, I just like to know my ****. You also have a much higher chance of getting cancer if you drink milk. Also theres more calcium in a head of broccoli than in a glass of milk.
You half read my post I believe, as said you can get protein from beans. I dunno about the milk I don't drink it, water for me, which did you know is very unhealthy if you drink to much?


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Yaezakura

Senior Member

12-26-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trick Slapped View Post
People are vegetarian/vegan mainly because it's a healthier way to live.

http://goveg360.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/bizarro-vegan-gorilla-comics1.gif
Except it's actually not. Humans are naturally omnivorous. We evolved to consume both plants and animals. It's like trying to say lions would be healthier if they ate nothing but tofu. An all-plant diet is as bad as an all-meat one for us.

Arguments can be made that perhaps people in the US and other developed countries eat too much meat. But cutting meat out all together cuts off vital sources of fat, protein and other essential nutrients.

Because "skinny as a rail" is not healthy. Humans are meant to develop a reasonable layer of fat as both insulation from extreme temperatures and to serve essentially as emergency fuel in difficult times.

So while you can hodge-podge a diet of only plants that won't kill you, it will never be as healthy as a natural omnivorous diet.


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teamchuckles

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12-26-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Valfreya View Post
Never said I was a vegetarian, was saying to my believe and talking to people and even dating someone that was a vegetarian (not anymore he couldn't be when he moved in with his grandparents, they were lazy to let him) says they can't get all the nutrients that meat provides so taking supplements are sometimes needed.

Also I know beans provide protein and you can get various nutrients from being a vegetarian that you sometimes don't get from meat, its simply I suppose more easy to make sure you get your nutrients by eating meat and making sure you have proper vegs with it also.

From what I read vegetarians have to watch what they eat so they can get enough of what they need to actually be healthy, sounds more complicated then eating a grilled piece of meat (which is more healthy than eating greasy cooked meat) and eating your vegs with it also.

Also greasy food are more unhealthy for your arteries than a non greasy piece of meat.

So you have to watch out because you might think your healthy, but your really not, that goes for both sides.
I feel like we agree with each other on this? Or else I missed the point.

My point was simply that you do not need supplements to be a vegetarian, and it's really not that hard to be one. You don't have to "watch what you eat" any more than a meat eater has to watch what they eat, simply because unless you're a vegetarian who is guzzling nothing but liquid cheese down your throat, then you're probably still getting all the required nutrients you need to keep yourself functioning.

This is mostly true as well because the body knows when you lack a certain nutrient. If you are vegetarian and your body feels like it lacks amino acids, funny enough, your brain will tell you that you want to eat some beans with dinner! It's almost like your body DOESN'T want to die (I, for the life of me, cannot figure out why).


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IndigoSloth

Member

12-26-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fern Knight View Post
About your economic bit: Fair enough, I don't really know too much about economics, and if what I thought was a fallacy was not, then I was wrong on that point. But at least we agree that things would stabilize in the end. Thank you for pointing out my mistake.

As for the appeal to false authority, while I did abbreviate the term, I felt that the authority in question was false in the case I was referring to. A website with the purpose of promoting the beef industry is clearly biased for our purposes.
I would like to say that I called you out on it not because I felt you needed it so much as the other readers. We can't have people going around believing you can't appeal to even legitimate authority(which I agree that site was not).

As for my stance, well I believe it is at least true that we(americans) consume too much meat but that's partially due to the fact that meat is dirt cheap.

As for what I believe others should do, just do what ever you want as long as your not a Utilitarian. If your a Utilitarian you better **** well not eat meat.


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teamchuckles

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12-26-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yaezakura View Post
Except it's actually not. Humans are naturally omnivorous. We evolved to consume both plants and animals. It's like trying to say lions would be healthier if they ate nothing but tofu. An all-plant diet is as bad as an all-meat one for us.

Arguments can be made that perhaps people in the US and other developed countries eat too much meat. But cutting meat out all together cuts off vital sources of fat, protein and other essential nutrients.

Because "skinny as a rail" is not healthy. Humans are meant to develop a reasonable layer of fat as both insulation from extreme temperatures and to serve essentially as emergency fuel in difficult times.

So while you can hodge-podge a diet of only plants that won't kill you, it will never be as healthy as a natural omnivorous diet.
I feel like very few people are actually reading my posts.

Humans are not naturally omnivorous, we adapt to becoming omnivorous. Read my earlier post, I won't reiterate.

Lions are not "intelligent life" like humans are, therefore comparing a lion's diet to a human's diet does not do any justice to the human - nor the lion. We share information and come to discover that there are healthy ways of eating (some argue healthier, but who knows), then we activate these plans. Lions don't understand this kinda ****.

In fact, comparing humans to lions should really be a deterrent to eating meat - do you suggest we are stupid enough that we should just eat whatever the **** is in front of our face regardless of the alternative, possibly more healthier solutions?

I know very many fat vegetarians (google vegetarian celebrities, you might find a few...), vegetarian != "skinny as a rail", and once again I state that being a vegetarian != eating healthy. Fat exists in many things that are not meat based, and many times those fats are more healthy than fat from meat.

You can hodge-dodge around this belief that one must eat meat in order to be healthy, but unfortunately the facts will never follow suit.


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IndigoSloth

Member

12-26-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by teamchuckles View Post
I feel like very few people are actually reading my posts.

Humans are not naturally omnivorous, we adapt to becoming omnivorous. Read my earlier post, I won't reiterate.

Lions are not "intelligent life" like humans are, therefore comparing a lion's diet to a human's diet does not do any justice to the human - nor the lion. We share information and come to discover that there are healthy ways of eating (some argue healthier, but who knows), then we activate these plans. Lions don't understand this kinda ****.

In fact, comparing humans to lions should really be a deterrent to eating meat - do you suggest we are stupid enough that we should just eat whatever the **** is in front of our face regardless of the alternative, possibly more healthier solutions?

I know very many fat vegetarians (google vegetarian celebrities, you might find a few...), vegetarian != "skinny as a rail", and once again I state that being a vegetarian != eating healthy. Fat exists in many things that are not meat based, and many times those fats are more healthy than fat from meat.

You can hodge-dodge around this belief that one must eat meat in order to be healthy, but unfortunately the facts will never follow suit.
Perhaps there was some information from this study(was it a study or am I mistaken) you earlier alluded to that would make everything click but as of now I can't draw the same conclusion as you have. Perhaps you could help me with this?

From what I remember you said that in this study that after eating only vegetables for several months eating meat would cause a person to vomit terribly.
I've also heard stories that during WWII that many of the starving jews actually ate themselves to death after getting out because their stomachs had stopped working at the capacity necessary to process that much food. These two things seem to suggest that the body simply shutdowns functions that are not necessary so as to conserve energy rather than your conclusion that the body creates these functions when it did not previously have them.

Perhaps I have your conclusion wrong though so feel free to correct me.

Also was it you who said that humans were herbivores? Perhaps the reason I in particular disagree is that I might hold a different definition of omnivore. Namely I define an omnivore as something with the capacity to eat both whereas someone else might define it as something that needs to eat both.