Best runes for an AD carry??

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IAmBearGrylles

Junior Member

12-26-2011

^^^^


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JustMyBassCannon

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Senior Member

12-26-2011

Armor Pen Marks every time, with masteries you get 20 early game which is rather large, mitigating a lot of champs' early game defense.

Seals are usually Armor, there are a few other choices you can use but Flat/Per Level Armor Seals help.

Glyphs are most often Flat/Per Level MR because, again, good defense boosts.

Quintessences can be good with flat AD, more Armor Pen, or a few other stats. I like either MS or HP.


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SNSD

Member

12-26-2011

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w20gfrHA3QM


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JustMyBassCannon

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Senior Member

12-26-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by SNSD View Post
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w20gfrHA3QM
That was so stupid it was smart...

But seriously, Armor Pen Marks are better than AD Marks. It makes a larger difference to increase the % of damage you deal than to increase the flat value.


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DreamsOfGrandeur

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Senior Member

12-26-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exdeadman View Post
Armor Pen Marks are better than AD Marks. It makes a larger difference to increase the % of damage you deal than to increase the flat value.
Not if you plan on build Last Whisper, and getting AD/level Marks.
Works better for champions with lots of AD-ratios like Graves, Pantheon, Urgot, etc..

Flat AD runes are great for early game harass and last-hitting too.




It really depends on the play-style you're building for.


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JustMyBassCannon

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Senior Member

12-26-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pain J Par View Post
I'm not perfectly sure what causes this (I think Diminished Returns?), but %-based Armor Penetration is not only hard to come by, but in Classic games, it's difficult to get over 50%...

The 10% you get from masteries (assuming you have taken it) plus the 40% you get from Last Whisper only equals 46% (To those going 'WTF, does she know how to do math?' as I said previously, something stops you from achieving 50%) and while that is indeed a large amount, it's not going to be game-breaking. I think that Armor Penetration marks are a must for players who play a lot of AD champions.

Target squishies first, and don't build to do damage against the tank. Kill the rival dps while ensuring your own survival. Casters and fellow AD carries are not going to stack armor (unless you really piss them off), and that means you will do more than enough damage to them with your criticals and AD/AS. To kill a squishy, you won't need much more than Armor Penetration Marks (Quints are optional) and the mastery that gives 10% Armor Pen.
The exact reason behind that being 46% instead of 50% is because there are two ways stats work in LoL: Additive and Multiplicative.

Additive stats, obviously, add up when put together. 10 AD on top of a base 55 makes 65. Duh.

Multiplicative stats are used for % stats that would be too strong if you could get 100% % Armor Pen, CC Reduction, stacking Slows, all of those work off multiplication. Basically, after the first one you multiply based on the remaining % rather than 100%
Ex. 40% Armor Pen leaves them with 60% Armor, then 10% of that is 6%, thus 46% Armor Pen.


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A Mana Pot

Member

12-27-2011

flat attack damage marks
attack speed seals
attack speed glyphs
armour pen quints
the ad reds along with the dorans blade allow you to farm om the turret without you lossing farm


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Karmaaa

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Member

12-27-2011

Doublelift likes to go ad reds, armor yellows, flat mr blues, ad quints

Chaox uses that and uses 6 armor pen reds, 3 ad reds, armor yellows, flat mr blues, and ad quints. Someone did some math and said that would be the optimal combo.

Long read on this topic: http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/n9z2n/the_reason_why_flat_ad_runes_are_now_preferred_to/


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TealNinje

Senior Member

12-27-2011

I feel like mathcrafting this.

All arguments assume 10% armor penetration from offensive tree and Last Whisper.
(The +35 comes from AD/level marks and quints.)

Against 100 armor:

.288256 reduction, or 71.17% damage with 25 armor penetration runes and Last Whisper against 100 armor.
.350649 reduction, or 64.94% damage with 0 armor penetration runes and Last Whisper against 100 armor.

Without Armor Penetration runes, total of 91.25% as much damage as with Armor Penetration runes.

Scenario 1
With 100 AD base + 35 AD: 135 damage, or 87.67 damage versus 100 armor with Last Whisper.
With 100 AD base with 25 armor penetration: 71.17 damage versus 100 armor with LW.

Scenario 2
With 200 AD base + 35: 235, or 152.61 against 100 armor+LW.
With 200 AD +25ArmPen: 142.34 vs. 100 armor with LW.

Case scenario 1: 71.17 versus 87.67 damage: Only 81.18% as much damage.
Case scenario 2: 142.34 versus 152.61 damage: Only 93.27% as much damage.

Against 200 armor:

.485861 reduction, or 51.41% damage with 25 armor penetration runes and Last Whisper against 200 armor.
.519230 reduction, or 48.07% damage with 0 armor penetration runes and Last Whisper against 200 armor.

Scenario 1
With 100 AD + 35 AD: 135, or 64.89 against 200 armor+LW.
With 100 AD +25ArmPen: 51.41 against 200 armor+LW.

Scenario 2
With 200 AD + 35 AD: 112.96 against 200 armor+LW.
With 200 AD +25ArmPen: 102.82 against 200 armor+LW.

Case scenario 1: 51.41 versus 64.89: Only 79.23% as much damage.
Case scenario 2: 102.82 versus 112.96: Only 91.02% as much damage.

With Gangplank's Parrrley: 120 base damage

Scenario 1
With 100 AD + 35 AD: 255, or 165.6 damage against 100 armor, or 122.58 against 200 armor.
With 100 AD + 25ArmPen: 220, or 156.57 damage against 100 armor, or 113.1 against 200 armor.

Scenario 2
With 200 AD + 35AD: 355, or 230.54 against 100, or 170.65 against 200.
With 200 AD + 25ArmPen: 320, or 227.74 against 100, or 164.51 against 200.

Case 1: 156.57 versus 165.6 (94.55%) and 113.1 versus 122.58 (92.27%)
Case 2: 227.74 versus 230.54 (98.79%) and 164.51 versus 170.65 (96.4%)

Continuing this logic, which is absurd as these values are ridiculous, the higher armor the opponent has, the better off AD Marks/Quints are compared to Armor Penetration Marks/Quints. However, the higher AD you have, the better off Armor Penetration is.

For the sake of completion:

(This next bit is for me only)
(64.94% without, 71.17% with)
(48.07% without, 51.41% with)
(The rest is for everyone)

200 AD with 260% critical damage with 100% critical chance: 520 damage per hit. 235 AD: 611
200AD2.6xCrit +35AD versus 100 Armor: 396.79 damage
200AD2.6xCrit +25ArmPen versus 100 Armor: 370.08 damage

200AD2.6xCrit +35AD versus 200 Armor: 293.71
200AD2.6xCrit +25ArmPen versus 200 Armor: 267.33

In the scenario of abilities:

(Using Gangplank)
295AD: 431 damage (including his passive, this time.) 279.89 versus 100, 207.18 versus 200.
260AD 25ArmPen: 396 damage. 281.83 damage versus 100, 203.58 versus 200.

So, with 120 base damage on the ability and a 1.0 total AD ratio, Armor Penetration runes are better versus 100 armor, and worse versus 200 armor. A higher base damage means you don't need as much AD for Armor Penetration runes to be better, and a higher ratio means the inverse.

This means that 396 damage is pretty close to the "sweet spot" where both runes are equal. Might be 415 damage or something, due to equal differences between 100 armor and 200 armor, but that's a whole lot more math to prove not very much.


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Flim and Flam

Senior Member

12-27-2011

(All greater runes of course)

Marks: Armor Penetration, sometimes AD.
Seals: Flat Armor, sometimes AS or crit chance.
Glyphs: Scaling Magic Resistance, sometimes flat MR, AS or crit chance
Quintessence: Armor Penetration, Movement Speed, AD, sometimes Flat HP5 or crit chance


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