Brainstorm for better scoring

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PrimalHatred

Senior Member

12-18-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phourc View Post
Not neccesarily. I've lost plenty of games as Panth being #1 on my team - and I was something like 14/4. AKA, actually top player by KDA as well.

I don't think the scoring system is as far off as you seem to make it sound - I'd even go so far as to suggest if a backcapper is #1 or #2, they're at least getting a lot of captures, and most likely being more useful than the rest of their team if they keep engaging in 3v4s despite knowing they're down a player. The only real problem with doing it with a PUG is they generally aren't organized enough to adapt, and backcappers generally don't communicate what they're going to do beforehand ):
It doesn't apply consistently though, consider the pretty frequent case of a bottom lane player who keeps dying and losing their point. They get points for dying on point, then someone from top comes and helps them grab it back, so they get points again for taking it. This happens a few times, they rack up tons of points for deaths and caps, while top can't ever get the Windmill back because they're 3v4ing with someone having to constantly save bot. Either the bot or the guy who keeps coming down to save their ass is going to have a truckload of points, despite that the mess they're in is losing the game.

I'm not sure what to do about this, but it does seem indicative of a problem.


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Phourc

Senior Member

12-18-2011

I will absolutely agree that the current meta makes the solo bot player the black sheep of the scoring system, as if they never lose their point, yet never cap the enemies', perhaps get a few neutralizes that force top players to come help, they're honestly doing pretty darn good.

Things that make a good bottom player -farming, harassing, bullying the enemy out even if you can't land a kill or cap - don't neccesarily make a good player up top, where there should be a lot more dying and capping.


And as you said, things that indicate they're doing poorly, dying defending, re-capping their point & hugging your tower (good defensive strategy generally, in bottom would mean you're getting pushed out) - are actually good things to do up top.

Should the score just switch it's priorities based on where you are on the map? I'm not sure the current meta should be that set in stone for the scoring system, but I'm not sure how else you can do that.


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MVpmack

Senior Member

12-19-2011

I think that an enemy player basing within 30 seconds of you dealing damage should also award points (5-10). Damage should use the current kill/assist mechanics so anyone who assists in the effort gets score. Basing should be counted by "gaining health from the summoner platform" and not just using the blue pill.

Honestly, I would just inflate all score tremendously and give a small amount of points every time you score a hit on an enemy champion, or perhaps do a certain amount of damage or percentage of lifebar but giving score if the enemy is forced to retreat is a lot better than the system is now.


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Helixes

Senior Member

12-19-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by MVpmack View Post
I think that an enemy player basing within 30 seconds of you dealing damage should also award points (5-10). Damage should use the current kill/assist mechanics so anyone who assists in the effort gets score. Basing should be counted by "gaining health from the summoner platform" and not just using the blue pill.

Honestly, I would just inflate all score tremendously and give a small amount of points every time you score a hit on an enemy champion, or perhaps do a certain amount of damage or percentage of lifebar but giving score if the enemy is forced to retreat is a lot better than the system is now.
I'm not sure that would be entirely effective.

Example: Bot lane, player A and B get in a fight. B dies, A takes B's tower and then A retreats. B gets 5 score

The issue there is that B is being rewarded now for losing his bottom (and this is rather common in bot lane) lane, which sets his team back heavily.

On top of that most people don't B for the sake of HP, since HP can be gained outside the base rather easily. Most the time people go while missing HP its because they just won a fight and are cashing in gold. It has a tendency to reward a loss.


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Ryzol Ryzo Ryz R

Senior Member

12-19-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by PrimalHatred View Post
It doesn't apply consistently though, consider the pretty frequent case of a bottom lane player who keeps dying and losing their point. They get points for dying on point, then someone from top comes and helps them grab it back, so they get points again for taking it. This happens a few times, they rack up tons of points for deaths and caps, while top can't ever get the Windmill back because they're 3v4ing with someone having to constantly save bot. Either the bot or the guy who keeps coming down to save their ass is going to have a truckload of points, despite that the mess they're in is losing the game.

I'm not sure what to do about this, but it does seem indicative of a problem.
My scoring system would show that bottom player as a detriment.


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dredzach

Senior Member

12-19-2011

Points should be awarded for success, not for effort. Instead of awarding a martyr bonus for dying under your tower, you should be awarded defending points for:

5 points per interrupted cap
Double kill/assist points for killing someone within 800 of a turret
Triple if they actually die within 100 of turret or with the turret getting the last shot.

Points for capping and neutralizing should be distributed the way gold is distributed, and less points for it. (you should get your points killing off the defenders)
Cap/Neut assists should be granted to any ally who stepped on the turret within (X) seconds before it got turned. (No need to click on turret to get a capture assist.)

Capturing your neutralized turret back should grant HALF points. You are just holding it. You haven't captured anything really.

Defender points should be awarded over time to the person in range of the turret (like it is now) but extend the defender points all the way across bottom lane. Holding the enemy bottom turret would create an overlap, doubling the defender points for bottom.

I repeat, no points for dying! How can you reward dying! Even if your death delays the enemy a second or two, your ally is now outnumbered cause you died like ... you know what.


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Phourc

Senior Member

12-19-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by dredzach View Post
5 points per interrupted cap
Double kill/assist points for killing someone within 800 of a turret
Triple if they actually die within 100 of turret or with the turret getting the last shot.
I wish I had a list of all the points that dom gave - I could swear interrupting was worth 20 last I played, kill on point was an extra 10 or so, and I'm not sure what them actually dying to the tower would be encouraging ):


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Valaciclovir

Junior Member

12-19-2011

I think we can agree that Martyr rewards bad play. Losing a tower several seconds earlier is generally better than having to spend thirty seconds shorthanded.

Rather than doubling points for kills on tower, I think kills should count for more points if your team currently controls more towers. This makes sense since a 1-for-1 kill trade generally benefits the team with more towers.

Capping towers and and cap assists should give the same amount of points. In my experience, having multiple people capping the same tower is often bad play.

I also agree that the Storm Shield is worth more than 3 points.


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xGvPx

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Senior Member

12-19-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Helixes View Post
1) Instead of 40 points per neutralization and cap to all who helped, set a maximum cap
-Neutralizing a point grants 60 points at maximum, divided among all who helped. Maximum of 40 points to any one person (i.e. solo neutralize)
-Capping a point grants 60 points at maximum, divided among all who helped. Maximum of 40 points to any one person (i.e. solo cap)
Neutralizing should give less points than a cap IMO because neutralizing is a lot easier to do.


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Helixes

Senior Member

12-20-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by xGvPx View Post
Neutralizing should give less points than a cap IMO because neutralizing is a lot easier to do.
But that's the thing, it isn't.

Neutralizing is to take an enemy held tower and make it so it isn't theirs. During this, a tower, minions, and champions are attacking you (plus the enemy champions benefit from stealth effects, talon, shaco, eve, twitch, akali ect). If you are capping the tower you compete only with champions, and even then those champions don't get stealth effect bonuses.

The initial impact of a neutralization, which is to stop point degrading, minions spawning, safe spot, and a stealth avenue is much more noticeable than the initial impact of gaining the tower.


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