AD vs. AP Kat?

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Yoni

Junior Member

07-10-2010

I tend to roll AD,
Simply start with rejuv beads and 3 pots, while mid laning and at 80% of the cases I don't even go back untill I have money for Spirit Visage and Boots3.
Then just farm the enemy for BF Sword, getting 2 and making them BT, usually end the game by this phase, with funny scores.

So skills go like R>Q>E>W (I like the bit more burst on shunpo for lower levels)
Though ofcourse at lv4 or 2 getting rank1 of W is a must.

and build goes for:
Spirit Visage (MR,HP regen,+healing% = win imo, allows you to play more recklessly, though less reckless then hearts of gold stacking)
Boots of Mobility (for more map domination, you want to tag along for ganks ALL the time)
and Bloodthirsters to death (3, and the last being a free spot if you want something new, though you get there about once every 30-40 games, I've went for P.Dancers or Guardian Angel, all depends on the opposin team)


And I deeply believe you don't need Rylai to make Death Lotus work, just roll with ignite and exhaust for the early levels killing and at endgame let your team start, W>E inside and roll Death Lotus up their faces, they usually won't notice or have used their stuns and you'll wreck double-triple-quadra kills often.


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peyo

Senior Member

07-11-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matuk View Post
The best AD Kat I've ever seen is one I play with consistently, and he never gets Sword of the Occult.

Usually he starts out with two Heart of Gold, gets Boots somewhere in there, and then buys two BF Swords. Most games end by then, but I'm pretty sure he builds them into two BTs.

Not sure what else he would get. Pretty sure he grabs a PD if the game is still going after that.
OMG... really best build.... NOT.


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Pwnacus Maximus

Senior Member

07-11-2010

i think that the general consensus is that AD kat does more overall damage, but AP kat has more synergy with rylais and her ult


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imnotbono

Senior Member

07-11-2010

Another example of preference.


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ThunderMissle

Junior Member

07-11-2010

AD vs AP:

Bouncing Blade vs Shunpo. That is the real argument.

So you can Shunpo in and do a huge chunk of damage, but then you're right on top of the opponent. No point in arguing about death lotus, if they have CC you get a face full. It applies to both builds.

Bouncing Blade you can sit back a few inches away from their minions and watch as the blades go to the edge of your screen and hit their champion thinking they were safe a screen away. Or hit the oncoming minion wave as they run away with low health at lvl 6. Plink plink plink plink plink BLAAAAAAAH. (insert evil hysterical laugh).

I've done both. Most of the games on the losing team I'd find myself unable to kill minions fast or effectively if they were super minions pushing our inhibitors or nexus turrets. This was my initial reason for going AD. It works well if you're losing.

A friend of mine started doing jungling warwick and so I took the 2v1 lane and just went for bouncing blades. Before long you're 6 while they're 4 and both at half hp from all the bounces. You have full health cause they can't get anywhere near you and the range bouncing blades offers (He doesn't play warwick anymore so we just lane together now, but bouncing blades benefits still apply just as much here, you wont get to outlevel the opponents unless you kill them or make them base).

Also the Killer Instincts Active makes heal classes not so daunting or disheartening to lane against.

Arguments against attack damage are usually "it costs too much gold!" It really doesn't. You can get a BF sword or Bloodthirster 6-10, depending on first blood or champ kills around 6. Then your harassment is just that nastier and you reel in the gold from minions/jungle mobs.

I play attack damage and smile when I see an enemy Kat going ability power. Cause I know she has to get close to me to do damage while I don't.

So the real point is Shunpo vs Bouncing Blade. Hands down Bouncing Blade.


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voiper

Member

07-11-2010

Let's say you solo. At 6 minutes in you're level 10. You have 85 AD by default.

At level 10, you also have 0 AP.

There isn't much of an argument here.


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BlindEternities

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Senior Member

07-11-2010

Quote:
Let's say you solo. At 6 minutes in you're level 10. You have 85 AD by default.

At level 10, you also have 0 AP.

There isn't much of an argument here.
sorry to be the bringer of bad news but:
Each dagger deals 50/65/80 magic damage plus the higher value between 55% of her bonus attack damage or 30% of her ability power.

so only weapons damage, runes, masteries, etc.

although thunder's got it right, it's really your preference on shunpo or bb, while bb harasses at a save distance and gives better farming, shunpo with lich bane hits like a truck. also ad gives you better team fight abilities for when your ult gets countered, and trust me, it will get countered.


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Matuk

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Senior Member

07-11-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlindEternities View Post
sorry to be the bringer of bad news but:
Each dagger deals 50/65/80 magic damage plus the higher value between 55% of her bonus attack damage or 30% of her ability power.

so only weapons damage, runes, masteries, etc.

although thunder's got it right, it's really your preference on shunpo or bb, while bb harasses at a save distance and gives better farming, shunpo with lich bane hits like a truck. also ad gives you better team fight abilities for when your ult gets countered, and trust me, it will get countered.
Was playing around with my buddy who plays Kat almost solely in practice games today, and he mentioned at one point that when he Shunpos, he tries to get in 2-3 hits before running out.

With high enough AD, I dunno if the Lich Bane hit of an AP build really is "better" exactly, in this specific situation.


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FABIOForever

Senior Member

07-11-2010

copied from the other thread. The short of it is that bouncing blade is a much better harassing AND farming tool in addition to the extra auto attack damage make it absolutely no contest. Good Kats focus on positioning for death lotus and don't need to rely on Rylai's like a crutch.


THE MATH!

Going off of BF sword and Large Rod costs:

1 AP = 20 gold
1 AD = 37 gold


For 1000 gold you get:

AP build- 37.5 shunpo damage, 15 death lotus damage
AD build- 27 bouncing blade damage + 27 auto attack damage + damage from multiple blade bounces, 15 death lotus damage


AD wins hands down in every category. This isn't even considering that the opportunities to harass with bouncing blade are much greater than the times it's safe to shunpo in.

The only other things to consider would be lich bane and zhonya's, which gets tricky to calculate. At what point would the wasted mana gold on a lich bane make it worth it? At what point will it surpass the equivalent gold in auto attack damage, if ever (remember you're only getting that proc hit every 3 seconds)? At what point will zhonya's percentage bonus make an AP build surpass the bonuses of AD?

You can safely say that both bane/zhonya bonuses won't build up to anything significant until later in the game, but then you're also not factoring in that an AD build will have made much, much more money than you by that point.

I really don't see how an AD build isn't flat out better in almost every possible way. An AP build doesn't even offer any more survivability (nothing is stopping an AD from also picking up a giant belt).


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Kazeikan

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Senior Member

07-12-2010

AP is better since items like Rylais and RoA both give HP and AP which are useful for going into teammates and unleashing ur ult and NOT dying.


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