The True Value of Towers

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Matuk

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Senior Member

07-10-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by hu4rollz View Post
Good post, but I think you leave out an important concept which is always present, giving a little more incentive to take towers: There is inflation happening every second in LoL. 100 gold at 10 minutes is worth significantly more than 100 gold at 20 minutes.

If you were allowed to borrow cash against future expected earnings, I think players would be willing to suffer high interest rates for the chance at more cash earlier. In other words, if someone asked you "what is the max you'd be willing to pay me at 20 minutes for me to give you 100 gold at 10 minutes?" any rational answer would be more than 100 and sometimes by a pretty large margin.

I don't think it's fair to present the 100 now and the 100 later as equal in your example. And I think this is one reason a significant risk of death is often justified in taking towers earlier than would otherwise be possible (although not a large risk of death).
Let us not forget that this $100 is actually $500, because your whole team gets it. Not just you.

The question is whether or not that extra $100 on each player will help get a kill sooner than usual, and thus return more than what that $100 is worth.


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TsurugiHikari

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Senior Member

07-10-2010

True, but I think the entire team will be a disadvantage if they were fighting with 4 against 5 members as a team. One member will more likely to get ganked if not two since one needs to just go missing in action and cause havoc against your team members.

On the other hand, if your teammates needs just another 100 Gold to all start snowballing really fast then this is it. Should a teammate go kill a tower in exchange for his death or not. In all and honesty, I rather stay alive after I kill the tower or die by a neutral monster instead in enemy heroes. Not too sure if a team gets gold if their tower kills the opposing team hero, but I believe - I think this is correct though - it denies the opposing team getting gold or anything if a neutral monster happens to kill you, instead of the opposing team heroes.


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Arancil

Senior Member

07-10-2010

I don't know how often I see people in my team wanting to surrender just because a full lane and a tower or two as gotten pushed, even though the enemies aren't dominating the team fights.

Then whining about the part of the team that doesn't want to surrender.


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imnotbono

Senior Member

07-10-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zerlegen View Post

1 champ pushing our towers to base

5 champs pushing enemy base. gee. who's gonna get it first? *rolls eyes*

This ^.


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hu4rollz

Senior Member

07-10-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by imnotbono View Post
This ^.
It's rarely this simple. In the early goings most 4 man setups can defend a tower from most 5 man setups long enough for the solo player to drop his tower first.

But it's true you have to be really careful about picking times to push without numbers and one of the number one mistake of new players is doing this too often.


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Nihili

Senior Member

07-10-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by flaminghito View Post
Think about this in terms of economics. Your opponent comes to you with a deal: "If you give me fifty dollars, I'll give you one hundred dollars." If you're thinking like that Pantheon, you'll take this deal because, after all, fifty dollars is less than one hundred dollars. But there's one critical point you're missing - in ten minutes, he'll give you those one hundred dollars for free.
There's another point that you forgot about. If you have 100$, you will want to invest them and get more money, and the earlier you have them, the more you will earn from the investment.

What I'm saying is that having a tower down earlier gives you a lot possibilities that you wouldn't have otherwise. Well, I can agree that the Inner Turret gives ****, but the Outer and Inhibitor ones give you a lot. The former gives you a lot of space to gank, and shrinks the enemies "safe zone", while the latter allows you easy backdooring.

Well yeah, one death for one turret is a poor trade-off, but how about one death for one turret and a few successful ganks later? Or for one turret and an inhibitor BD'ed while you're holding off the enemy 4v5? Think long-term, one turret is not just next step towards the nexus. It's a bag full of possibilities and adventure!


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Vijaya

Senior Member

07-10-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nihili View Post
There's another point that you forgot about. If you have 100$, you will want to invest them and get more money, and the earlier you have them, the more you will earn from the investment.

What I'm saying is that having a tower down earlier gives you a lot possibilities that you wouldn't have otherwise. Well, I can agree that the Inner Turret gives ****, but the Outer and Inhibitor ones give you a lot. The former gives you a lot of space to gank, and shrinks the enemies "safe zone", while the latter allows you easy backdooring.

Well yeah, one death for one turret is a poor trade-off, but how about one death for one turret and a few successful ganks later? Or for one turret and an inhibitor BD'ed while you're holding off the enemy 4v5? Think long-term, one turret is not just next step towards the nexus. It's a bag full of possibilities and adventure!
What about dragon? I've played with tons of teams who were so focused on getting towers that they neglected dragon, and in the end they got out-farmed because dragon gives more gold.

To OP:

Something you forgot to mention is hard carries. The reason Team Pentasiv is terrible is because Sivir is only a semi-carry: they have decent enough ability that they can carry a team, but they minimal damage compared to hard carries like Jax and Tryndamere. So, maybe the reason you won that game was because, while your Jax and Trynd had a terrible early game, they've managed to farm super creeps for ten minutes straight and currently have so much gold they're selling their boots for another PD.

This is largely a player role though. Those types of champs work better in premades, where the entire team knows that (insert Ashe, Jax, Corki, Tryndamere, etcetc here) will be farming all game so they can maximize their potential. Which goes back to keeping the towers (enemies and your own) up so that they can farm as long as possible.


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reverseshades

Senior Member

07-10-2010

Has a point but isn't exactly true. Thats simply called having a better team composition , a better late game. Sure towers mean everything, Theres this wonderful thing called backdooring that TF is so much hated for.

I win games much to often just because say they have pantheon on there team and such characters fade away late game. Yeah towers signifies that they are winning , The goal of the game is TO PUSH and get to the inhibitor. Simply Acing them late game with such high cooldown , just simply means that they have bigger punishment for making mistakes , While your team got pushed all the way back , and made there mistakes early game , with less of a respond time.

It's just how the game works , there really isnt a GAME theory behind any of this.


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FortuitusFortune

Master Recruiter

07-10-2010

Am I the only one that thinks team pentasiv would still win?


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Hallam

Senior Member

07-10-2010

I see some flaw in this. Towers are worth gold and map control. Freeing champs to jungle, push another lane, or farm creeps as they push the lane with a downed tower.

From what I've seen and played the comebacks are few and it is usually because the team getting pushed on has a better late game. It certainly not a strategy that would be played but something that just happens. Either because the better late game team, or the pushing team made a mistake. I've been in far more games where the team with the least amount of towers has a significant disadvantage and 7 times out of 10 is the loser. Rallies are always possible, but not always feasible.

Also even with an ace if the creep waves are not pushed far in their lanes you won't be able to fully capitalize on it. Without creeps then the team would need to have a tank to be able to take the hits.


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