Mundo - Sunfire

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moneypouch

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12-16-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mahjonks View Post
He gets CC'ed? The only person who can escape CC better is Irelia with the whole team on her. By less than 5% CC reduction.

So Basically a Dr. Mundo with Burning Agony on, Merc Treads, and Juggernaut will enjoy a 61.975% CC reduction.

I'm not seeing this magical he gets CC'd.... And honestly, if someone is chasing him down, he can throw 40% slowing cleavers behind himself with frightening regularity.

The only way I can see Dr Mundo being seen as a bad pick is honestly if you try to go out there and try to die. His roll in TT is to not die, push lanes, and keep towers from being toppled if his team mates die. He can clear jungle effectively if lanes are pushed too far and his % damage on cleaver is great for securing a quick dragon.

If I need my win of the day because I don't have long, I play Dr. Mundo in Twisted Treeline. It is more of a guaranteed win than playing CoOp vs. AI.
Sry man mundo is one of the worst picks right now

First off trundle also has mundo beat on the cc reduc

Now lets take a look at why you would pick mundo; Mundo is a bruiser who scales well with HP, ignores cc late game (get to this in a sec), spamable single target slow, some jungle utility, and has a mediocre lane presence (his sustain doesn't come until his ult, missed/dodged q's effectively damage you, nothing to punish someone just sitting in their caster minions if they have range on you and cant toe to toe with other sustain brusiers (udyr, ww, lee, even rumble)

If getting through their cc is really important olaf does a much better job with a much better laning phase.

If you need a spamable slow with good movespeed grab nunu, more sustained pre-6, slow comes with AS reduc, movespeed increase without using ult (and helps an ally), well place ult wins teamfights

If u want jungle utility there r a million picks but best comparison is prob Lee, has slow/AS reduc, shield+sustain, q nuke that out damages smite

If you need all of those things ironically both Trundle (but hes trash too dont play him -SSoTP) and Irelia do it better: much stronger lanes, stronger jungle utility, more effective cc (stun/aoe slow + wall), and most importantly they never have a reason to have their CC reduction off

So i would only ever pick mundo if for some reason every other champ listed above was picked/banned

But now the most important thing, mundo does not go where he pleases. His early game CC reduction is terrible 15% reduc in exchange for 20 true dmg to self every second... wtf. Now lets compare this to his passive, toggling it on is like turning off his passive so with a whopping 3 hp a sec for every 1000hp you have 7 base hp5 at 1k hp you can have it on 1 sec for every 5 you have it off lol dat uptime.
And that's ignoring the major design flaw of the ability, you want it on when you are going to be taking cc (aka when u are being attacked) to avoid taking damage but turning the ability on causes you to take additional dmg. Its slightly less flawed when using it to chase but it still has the problem that its weakening you as u chase making turnarounds much more likely and the sad truth is assuming just base 30 mr you are only doing 10.8 more dmg to your opponent than u are taking yourself... hence the cc/kite mundo=win argument u see alot, if hes not already in melee range by the time he is there hes gonna be too weak to do anything or getting his ult forced then ignited (fun fact if mundo ults at 33.3% hp and gets ignited for the next 4 seconds he has actually lost health, 4 seconds is a very long time)

Now all this is for early game mundo lvl 1-8 but honestly especially in TT this is where the game is decided, unless you are a very special case (ryze, trynd, jax) where u hit a core build tipping point and start to dominate it is incrediably hard to carry mid/late from a bad start. Mid game (9-16) mundo might be a match for Irelia idk I dont really like her so i dont use her much and he has trundle beat (not in a 1v1 of course but in overall usefulness i'd say) by a small amount but late game (16+) both trundle and Irelia are so much better and are much more likely to hit this point because of their good early games.
Anyways if you want to dominate the mid game play WW/Lee.

Idk where to put this and I'm too tired to edit right now. Mundo also struggles with a clear ability ranking priority. E is by far his best dmg ability but unless squishes are dumb enough to walk into your melee range it probably wont get much use and should be saved for second or last. Problem is is that to get use out of his W's cc reduc and dmg you have to rank it (increasing the dmg dealt to you, big problem if trying to max this first) but ranking W denys you what meager lane presence you have with cleaver poke (q dmg scales really nicely making it good to max first but the slow is 40% at all ranks which lends itself more to a 1 point wonder ability). Mundo's design is just too confused, imo health cost champs are an outdated system in league losing a percentage to activate a big ability like vlads ult or pool is fine but flat costs just dont make sense anymore (see morde as well, always either trash or god tier)

Oh and idk how I got this far into this post without mentioning this but want winotheday? play singed does exactly what u describe with mundo at twice the effectiveness (but honestly don't playing singed in normal TT will just make people hate u)

Ya so i'm done ranting on this lol hopefully my ramblings aren't to bad

TL;DR: Mundo does not go where he pleases, true damage to self to avoid dmg... If only we were still in the pre-xin era lol


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moneypouch

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12-16-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by MauJustice View Post
Does QSS remove the healing reduction of ignite?
no neither does cleanse, just the dmg


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Mahjonks

Junior Member

12-16-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by moneypouch View Post
Sry man mundo is one of the worst picks right now

First off trundle also has mundo beat on the cc reduc

Now lets take a look at why you would pick mundo; Mundo is a bruiser who scales well with HP, ignores cc late game (get to this in a sec), spamable single target slow, some jungle utility, and has a mediocre lane presence (his sustain doesn't come until his ult, missed/dodged q's effectively damage you, nothing to punish someone just sitting in their caster minions if they have range on you and cant toe to toe with other sustain brusiers (udyr, ww, lee, even rumble)

If getting through their cc is really important olaf does a much better job with a much better laning phase.

If you need a spamable slow with good movespeed grab nunu, more sustained pre-6, slow comes with AS reduc, movespeed increase without using ult (and helps an ally), well place ult wins teamfights

If u want jungle utility there r a million picks but best comparison is prob Lee, has slow/AS reduc, shield+sustain, q nuke that out damages smite

If you need all of those things ironically both Trundle (but hes trash too dont play him -SSoTP) and Irelia do it better: much stronger lanes, stronger jungle utility, more effective cc (stun/aoe slow + wall), and most importantly they never have a reason to have their CC reduction off

So i would only ever pick mundo if for some reason every other champ listed above was picked/banned

But now the most important thing, mundo does not go where he pleases. His early game CC reduction is terrible 15% reduc in exchange for 20 true dmg to self every second... wtf. Now lets compare this to his passive, toggling it on is like turning off his passive so with a whopping 3 hp a sec for every 1000hp you have 7 base hp5 at 1k hp you can have it on 1 sec for every 5 you have it off lol dat uptime.
And that's ignoring the major design flaw of the ability, you want it on when you are going to be taking cc (aka when u are being attacked) to avoid taking damage but turning the ability on causes you to take additional dmg. Its slightly less flawed when using it to chase but it still has the problem that its weakening you as u chase making turnarounds much more likely and the sad truth is assuming just base 30 mr you are only doing 10.8 more dmg to your opponent than u are taking yourself... hence the cc/kite mundo=win argument u see alot, if hes not already in melee range by the time he is there hes gonna be too weak to do anything or getting his ult forced then ignited (fun fact if mundo ults at 33.3% hp and gets ignited for the next 4 seconds he has actually lost health, 4 seconds is a very long time)

Now all this is for early game mundo lvl 1-8 but honestly especially in TT this is where the game is decided, unless you are a very special case (ryze, trynd, jax) where u hit a core build tipping point and start to dominate it is incrediably hard to carry mid/late from a bad start. Mid game (9-16) mundo might be a match for Irelia idk I dont really like her so i dont use her much and he has trundle beat (not in a 1v1 of course but in overall usefulness i'd say) by a small amount but late game (16+) both trundle and Irelia are so much better and are much more likely to hit this point because of their good early games.
Anyways if you want to dominate the mid game play WW/Lee.

Idk where to put this and I'm too tired to edit right now. Mundo also struggles with a clear ability ranking priority. E is by far his best dmg ability but unless squishes are dumb enough to walk into your melee range it probably wont get much use and should be saved for second or last. Problem is is that to get use out of his W's cc reduc and dmg you have to rank it (increasing the dmg dealt to you, big problem if trying to max this first) but ranking W denys you what meager lane presence you have with cleaver poke (q dmg scales really nicely making it good to max first but the slow is 40% at all ranks which lends itself more to a 1 point wonder ability). Mundo's design is just too confused, imo health cost champs are an outdated system in league losing a percentage to activate a big ability like vlads ult or pool is fine but flat costs just dont make sense anymore (see morde as well, always either trash or god tier)

Oh and idk how I got this far into this post without mentioning this but want winotheday? play singed does exactly what u describe with mundo at twice the effectiveness (but honestly don't playing singed in normal TT will just make people hate u)

Ya so i'm done ranting on this lol hopefully my ramblings aren't to bad

TL;DR: Mundo does not go where he pleases, true damage to self to avoid dmg... If only we were still in the pre-xin era lol
This is where you assume base HP regen.


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moneypouch

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12-16-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mahjonks View Post
This is where you assume base HP regen.
Huh? no the maths there i took it right from the wiki

ugg my post is so ugly I'll prob come back and edit the formating sometime today


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Koldheartedjsp

Senior Member

12-16-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by moneypouch View Post
no neither does cleanse, just the dmg
what...

I'm pretty sure QSS removes everything but you are a plat but...

I'm pretty sure you're wrong on the QSS not removing grievous wounds


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VVstar

Senior Member

12-16-2011

mundo is not bad as in he sucks like eve, just that other tanky dps outperforms him, mundo has no dash and his laning is weak earlygame.


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moneypouch

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12-16-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Koldheartedjsp View Post
what...

I'm pretty sure QSS removes everything but you are a plat but...

I'm pretty sure you're wrong on the QSS not removing grievous wounds
Hmm there was a time when it didn't but it appears it does again, just tested. Good catch I might play swain again.


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Borygmos

Senior Member

12-17-2011

I ran Sunfire on mundo for a long time, still dont see the problem with it, however i think you should max W last


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