Leave buster and Tribunal interaction

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Lord Ferret

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Senior Member

12-12-2011

Riot I have noticed a lot of people complaining about being banned shortly after coming back from a ban.

Now my question is this, Could this be a problem with the tribunal and the leave buster system not interacting correctly.

Say person gets banned by the leave buster while his case is in the tribunal. Now say he gets unbanned from the leaver buster ban and his case is still being reviewed / voted on.

A few days later when the judgement of his case is complete he earns another ban.

Is there a way to check if this is happening? Could this be a problem and might have to have the leave buster system removed or changed?


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reapermaster

Senior Member

12-12-2011

I think its a matter of different perspectives. And yes, you do have a valid point/idea, but how to fairly implement it may be a whole other matter.

But the question that needs to be asked is do you not discipline the individual in one case or the other? Doing so potentially says that the system is not impartial. If it is shown to not be impartial either the LeaveBuster or the Tribunal would need to be disbanded.

Just trying to get ideas flowing. I am not trying to discredit your concern and apologize if I have done so.


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Lord Ferret

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Senior Member

12-12-2011

no you havent. I am trying to see or get a response from someone in riot on if this could be the case. I would love if a riot could tell me I am wrong on this.

No I have not been banned from the tribunal or the Leavebuster.

Honestly if the tribunal can get up and running to its full potential then I dont think the Leave buster system will be needed. Since people will just send in their reports of people afking or leaving and we will be able to tell with the tribunal (some added functions like when a player leaves or connects again and timestamps on those).


I thank you for your reply.

Edit - I also believe once one person gets banned from one of the things the other shouldnt be able to ban them so soon after an unban.


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reapermaster

Senior Member

12-12-2011

To take it to the extremes of context here.
If a shoplifter goes to jail for theft, but prior to that he assualted/murdered someone. He is in jail, does his time and gets out. At that point there is enough evidence to charge him on the assault/murder, what do you do?

So you give him a slap on the wrist? Do you say that additional ban takes into account the previous ban with Time served included?

In short the more constructive that this post becomes the easier it is to present a case to Riot.


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Lord Ferret

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Senior Member

12-13-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by reapermaster View Post
To take it to the extremes of context here.
If a shoplifter goes to jail for theft, but prior to that he assualted/murdered someone. He is in jail, does his time and gets out. At that point there is enough evidence to charge him on the assault/murder, what do you do?

So you give him a slap on the wrist? Do you say that additional ban takes into account the previous ban with Time served included?

In short the more constructive that this post becomes the easier it is to present a case to Riot.
I don't think that's what its like. It is more like he gets arrested for shoplifting does his time then something gets screwed up and has a warrant out and get s arrested for the same shoplifting charge.

This is what is happening with the interaction of the tribunal and the leave buster. Getting punished twice for the same infraction.


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Aregionius

Senior Wrenchman

12-13-2011

LeaverBuster is also more stringent on accounts with previous bans. If a player comes back from a ban and leaves, disconnects or AFKs right away, they get almost no buffer for a Leaver Level increase in LeaverBuster.


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Lord Ferret

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Senior Member

12-13-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aregionius View Post
LeaverBuster is also more stringent on accounts with previous bans. If a player comes back from a ban and leaves, disconnects or AFKs right away, they get almost no buffer for a Leaver Level increase in LeaverBuster.
That is true. But lets say a leave after becoming unbanned never happened? And the only thing they have against them is the leaves?

Do the riot employees that check the tribunal cases have a data base of those who have been banned by the leave buster?

Or is there a database kinda like knowing who has been banned for what type deal.

IE knowing every players ban history to reference it if he gets in trouble again. And do they check the data base for leavebuster bans?


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reapermaster

Senior Member

12-13-2011

So how do you be impartial? One system or the other needs to trump the other with the way you are taking it. If that is true then it always has to be the same system that trumps the other, and in this case I would make it the tribunal. Leaves are leaves, however all cases sent to the tribunal are usually of a much more serious nature.

This still leaves us back to where we are now. If a tribunal ruling comes into effect after a leavebuster ban, the user is still banned, the tribunal still trumps the leave buster. The inverse is never possible. You cannot come back from a tribunal ban and walk directly into a leavebuster ban, unless you have left.


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Lord Ferret

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Senior Member

12-13-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by reapermaster View Post
So how do you be impartial? One system or the other needs to trump the other with the way you are taking it. If that is true then it always has to be the same system that trumps the other, and in this case I would make it the tribunal. Leaves are leaves, however all cases sent to the tribunal are usually of a much more serious nature.

This still leaves us back to where we are now. If a tribunal ruling comes into effect after a leavebuster ban, the user is still banned, the tribunal still trumps the leave buster. The inverse is never possible. You cannot come back from a tribunal ban and walk directly into a leavebuster ban, unless you have left.
Yep that is the case. We have been told that riot employees look over the case from the tribunal. Do they look to see if the person was banned from the leavebuster? If this is the case then we can safely say that nether of them have problems interacting with another.

Having a red response would be nice to have saying one way or the other. Or atleast they are looking into it.


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y2khippy

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Senior Member

12-13-2011

Leaver Buster works well dealing with somthing that an automated systen can handle. It allows for the rare crash, connection filure etc, while still targeting habitual leavers and AFK.

The Tribunal has a very different role taking care of incidents that automation cannot handle. Harasment, Feeding, Abuse and so much more. Those reviewing Tribunal cases have alot of experiance in the game to judge the evidance provided to come to an educated verdict.

The Tribunal is a slower process compared to the automated LeaverBuster that will punnish you in the post game screen for infractions. The reason why it is delayed is to allow for multple safety mesures to insure enough evidance is collected and a large concensis is made for either pardon or punnish. The Tribunal may be slower but still gets the job done as efficiently as LeaveBuster.

Both LeaverBuster and the Tribunal are totally seperate systems that deal with different matters. Yes when some one is reported for leaving or AFK in post game it goes to the Tribunal but a case review is ment to focus on other areas because this matter has already been delt with. Post games reports for leaveing for the Tribunal to handle are from Custom games that are not linked to LeaverBuster and i dont know if it is linked yet, but Dominion was also not linked initially to this safe guard. I have seen reports of players claiming on not playing for a month only to come back for a single game only be suspended by the Tribunal for case's when they were active previously.

If you only want a response from Riot then send you question to the suport ticket and wait for your official response. Both Reapemaster and Aregionius have attempted to help you here but if you cannot acept this and their position as representitives of Riot yet not employees. Then that is the only course of action left to you.


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