### Armor Pen Quints vs. Flat AD Quints

Ovinus

Member

So I realized that flat AD quints have a much higher value compared to armor pen quints than flat AD marks do compared to armor pen marks. I ran some numbers to see whether it would be better to have armor pen quints or flat AD quints with armor pen marks. Here is the math I came up with. Please double check it for me or let me know if I am assuming incorrectly.

Firstly I am using a flat value of 50 Attack damage base for all these numbers (or 56.75 for the AD quints).

If you have armor pen quints and marks you get 29 armor pen total with 50 attack damage.

If you have AD Quints and armor pen marks you have 17 armor pen with 56.75 attack damage.

29 armor pen with 50 attack damage on a target with 40 armor will yeild 45.04 damage.
40-29 = 11 armor left 1 - (11/(11 + 100)))*50 = 45.04

17 armor pen with 56.75 attack damage on a target with 40 armor will yeild 46.14 damage.
40-17 = 23 armor left 1 - (23/(23 + 100)))*56.75 = 46.14

Last whisper is an item i always get fairly early in the game so lets assume it is now in play (but still ignoring the +10 attack damage because it wont play a major role..the numbers will still show the better of the two options). Lets also bump it up to 100 armor now since it is later in the game.

29 armor pen with Last whisper and 50 attack damage on a target with 100 armor will yeild 35.06 damage.
100 - 29 = 71 armor 71*.6 = 42.6 armor left. 1 - (42.6/(42.6 + 100)))*50 = 35.06

17 armor pen with Last whisper and 56.75 attack damage on a target with 100 armor will yeild 37.58 damage.
100 - 17 = 83 armor 83*.6 = 49.8 armor left. 1 - (49.8/(49.8 + 100)))*56.75 = 37.58

Now lets bump it up to 200 armor even...

29 armor pen with Last whisper and 50 attack damage on a target with 200 armor will yeild 24.68 damage.
200 - 29 = 171 armor 171*.6 = 102.6 armor left. 1 - (102.6/(102.6 + 100)))*50 = 24.68

17 armor pen with Last whisper and 56.75 attack damage on a target with 200 armor will yeild 27.05 damage.
200 - 17 = 183 armor 183*.6 = 109.8 armor left. 1 - (109.8/(109.8 + 100)))*56.75 = 27.05

I think this works because flat armor pen reduces the effectiveness of last whisper by a slight amount. It appears to me that flat AD quints is a better option. Can anyone confirm this for me?

EDIT: I made some Excel graphs that show 4 options for 3 different armor amounts.
It appears that AD quints are generall better than Armor Pen Quints until you aquire a certain amount of attack damage. The more armor a target has, the longer AD quints are better than Armor Pen quints.

Diatz

Member

Try it again, but bump up the AD value to 100, 150, 200. You're only focusing on one variable, an increase in armor. What about an increase in attack damage? What's the cut-off point of AD quints being better than armor pen quints?

Rysan Marquise

Senior Member

As with all things in this game it is a matter of percentage gains. This would appear to be absurdly powerful if you started with 10 damage per attack, but there is a real problem here.

Not only does it begin scaling poorly at higher levels, but more importantly it begins scaling poorly after a single item. Attack damage is devalued by any items you might carry, while armor penetration increases the value of your attack-damage items.

RiceMan

Senior Member

Is it just me or does anyone else not like the Last Whisper? I don't see it's effectiveness unless your an auto-attack champion as the % armor pen isn't applied to abilities.

If your going to do the math and it comes to be this close how about the cost of items? It doesn't matter if you get an extra few damage points unless it's cheaper.

Other item options can be Brutalizer, Starks, Black Cleaver. Just doesn't seem like it matters for that little amount of damage and will vary on your champion and item build too much.

UnHolySavior

Junior Member

yes ad quints only better till u get ur first ad item pretty much