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Q: Why Magic Pen runes over flat AP?

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Pawstruck

Senior Member

12-08-2011

Hey guys, quick question.

I've got a basic AD rune set that works pretty well, but my AP runes are in need of an overhaul. I plan on buying a new set, and I need to know: Why does everyone go with magic penetration rather than AP?

I played with a Fiddle on TT recently who was all flat AP, and ended up with something like 48 AP at level 1 (!). He absolutely wrecked. Dark wind became a terrifying nuke, and his zoning really took off once he got his full combo.

Is there a reason most mages don't do this?


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Pyr

Senior Member

12-08-2011

Because the AP provided by reds doesn't add enough damage overall to justify taking them over Magic Pen. Flat will give you about 4 more ap. The damage from that will always be less than the 4% or so bump in damage from penetration throughout the game.


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SynergyDreamer

Senior Member

12-08-2011

Well, observing strictly the Marks the amount of AP from those is pretty small compared to the potential effect of MPen (a very small bit of dmg vs allowing true damage via Sorc Boots).

But going AP/level Glyphs and Flat AP Quints is a pretty popular and effective setup paired with the MPen Marks. My answer is a lot of mages actually do use similar setups.


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Pawstruck

Senior Member

12-08-2011

But magic pen does nothing until the enemy gets magic resist items, correct?
Is there any "base magic resist" at level 1? Or are you just looking to go through runes/masteries with mpen?


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corallein

Senior Member

12-08-2011

Every champion has some base magic resist. Many have around 30 base MR at level 1 (before runes and masteries).

Magic Pen scales with AP and with the base damage of your spells by reducing the amount the opponent resists from the added damage.
But mostly, the amount of AP you get from marks is trivial since it's a tertiary rune for that slot. There is simply no reason to run AP reds.


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ViashinoWizard

Senior Member

12-08-2011

Quote:
Pawstruck:
But magic pen does nothing until the enemy gets magic resist items, correct?
Is there any "base magic resist" at level 1? Or are you just looking to go through runes/masteries with mpen?


Everyone has at least 30 MR at level 1. Some have more, either because they get MR per level (like Kassadin) or they have MR runes/masteries. Also, marks give terrible AP. The general set-up for mages is Mpen marks, choice of seals (usually scaling AP or some form of mana regen), scaling AP glyphs and flat AP quints.


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Pawstruck

Senior Member

12-08-2011

Ah. Thank you everyone!


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CrimsonCircle

Junior Member

12-08-2011

For the record, you can get 51 ap as fiddle level 1, while still packing spell pen marks, quite easily. It's what I do so I'd know.


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Sam the Brave

Junior Member

12-08-2011

Something else that needs to be mentioned is that Magic Pen runes are not going to help a support/healer class e.g. Soraka or Taric heal their teammates for larger heals. Flat AP runes make spells that can be cast on friendlies (heals and so forth) more effective then Magic Pen because magic resistance and penetration are disregarded for spells that are cast on teammates.


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Carados

Senior Member

12-08-2011

Quote:
Sam the Brave:
Something else that needs to be mentioned is that Magic Pen runes are not going to help a support/healer class e.g. Soraka or Taric heal their teammates for larger heals.

You are playing those champions wrong if you think their point is to heal people. That's one or two skills, that you level second, out of four.


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