Manamune on Ryze?

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divsky

Senior Member

12-07-2011

Almost every guide on Ryze I've seen suggests putting an Archangel's Staff on him in late game. Obviously tear of the goddess is a no-brainer on Ryze, but Ryze has dismal AP ratios so the extra AP the Archangel's Staff gives him seems like a waste. I've been wondering if anyone has experimented with putting a Manamune on him. There are a few advantages I can think of with this:

Manamune can build up towards the 1000 mana cap faster.
Manamune is much cheaper
This will give Ryze the ability to actually damage towers.

Once you hit late game Ryze doesn't really need the huge boost in mana regen from the archangel's, since he'll have so much mana he'll never run out. And Ryze's autoattack has the same range as his abilities, so he'll use them automatically between ability uses. So, because of his terrible AP ratios, I feel like that extra damage from the autoattacks you're using anyways would be more damage you'd be getting from the extra AP granted by the archangel's.


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Manmuncher

Junior Member

12-07-2011

It'd prolly work okay... but i'd still say archangels simply due to the fact that he has no other AD benefit, such as a decent attack speed or a skill that helps him with auto attacks. And while they're dismal ratios, they're still there. Plus, his E only scales with AP and without AP it's pretty pathetic.

Though honestly, i never upgrade my Tear of the goddess until i finish everything else- mana seems to be the best choice regardless.


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Arlowne

Senior Member

12-07-2011

While Ryze's AP Ratio isn't spectacular, it's still there, and thus Archangel's Staff is better.

Archangel's Staff provides:
45 AP
400 mana
25 mp5
+AP = 3% of max mana.

Assuming you have 4000 mana, which is easy when you're even considering upgrading your TotG, that's 120 AP. That's 24 to your Q, 72 damage to your W, and 42 damage to your E (and up to 210 if all 5 bounces on enemies). A decent investment.

Manamune gives:
20 AD
350 mana
7 mp5
2% of mana into AD.

With 4000 mana, that's 80 AD. I believe Ryze's attack speed is like .8ish, so that's a very weak improvement. By the time you should be considering even upgrading your tears, you should be rolling in money, making the cheaper cost of Manamune null.

Verdict: Don't get Manamune.


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ragefireJM

Member

12-07-2011

I understand what you're saying about pushing towers, but I don't think there's really a point in the game where you would want to be solo pushing a tower as Ryze. There are other champs who are much much better at it.

Midgame it might help bring down some of the outlying towers, but when you're attacking the base towers/nexus towers, it won't matter because you should 99% of the time have team mates with you.


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Cenerae

Senior Member

12-08-2011

The only reason to get a Manamune over an AA staff is to knock towers over a bit faster.

AA staff will add more damage to your combo, crappy ratios or no.


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Warrrrax

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Senior Member

12-08-2011

A full q,w,q,e,q,r,q,w,q,e,q combo has a 58% mana ratio and assuming 2 bounces has like a 3.8 AP ratio total.

So 100 mana would add 58 damage, whereas 10 AP (same cost) would add 38 damage.


Therefore, AP is about 2/3rds as useful as mana...per gold piece.


An upgrade to AA costs 1860g and will provide 50 mana, 140ish AP. Thats 100g of mana, and 2800g of AP. If AP is worth 66% value, then its worth 1900g to Ryze.
So it is still an effective upgrade.


Manamune on the ohter hand gives you AD which is good for nothing. With maxed CDR, ryze can blast away pretty quickly with NO ROOM for autoattacks until his combo is done. Even if you add 1 autoattack to each combo (despite shorter autoattack range), you are only adding 80 dmg from manamune.

On the other hand the AA upgrade would add 58% x 50mana plus 140AP x 3.8 = 600ish damage.


Even the tower argument is stupid because AP also increases anti-tower damage.


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SandfireX

Junior Member

06-02-2012

on my current build with Ryze, you're the king of bruisers (except maybe Vladimir) full build ends up being
Sorcerer shoes, manamune, Frozen Heart, Rod of Ages, Banshees Veil, Trinity.
take Ryze's base stats & add
99 armor
3200 mana
20% cdr (total 30%!)
1125 hp

the cool part is, your spells are doing 300-500 each, and with manamune, you end up with around 230 attack so basically even your basic attacks are devastating.


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Kaoelith

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Senior Member

06-02-2012

nice necro

dead posts should be auto deleted after 3 months tops.....

also you're build sucks with the buff to his ap ratios he should be building mana with ap now not just full mana