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[GUIDE] AP Kog'Maw - Destroyer of Worlds

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Matuk

Senior Member

07-15-2010

Quote:
Redenbacher:
A few issues caught my eye with this guide.

1) Rylai's Scepter - My understanding is the slow effects are separate, not additive, and the larger of the two takes precedence. Thus, this will only cause your Caustic Spittle and Artillery to have an added slow effect, and does not add to Void Ooze. Not horrible, but probably makes it more of a luxury than a core build.

2) Leveling E over W - Even if you're going AP, I don't see how W is useless to you. It deals magic damage based on percentage of AP, and might just help snag you that early kill from the added range on an over-aggressive lane opponent. Caustic Spittle, on the other hand, requires Kog to get right up in their face - where you don't want to be. Your opening statement is to 'stay away, use E and R to win'... Well why not use E, W, and R to win. If they're in range for Void Ooze, they're in range for W - more DPS is never a bad thing.

I'm not saying you're wrong, as I'm not a Kog player (only tried him once so far... and loved it), these things just jumped out at me

Wrong, they stack. Go back to the New Player Forum and check the FAQs.

Item slows do not stack with each other but they do stack with abilities, which also stack with each other.

Now if you're talking stacking multiple slows by spamming numerous spells at the same time? Well duh. New spells will just refresh the slow.
The one flaw is that Rylai's only applies it's slow to the damage component of Void Ooze, not the slow effect left behind.
Shouldn't be a problem with good R spam of course.


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Woozl

Senior Member

07-25-2010

In addition to clarifying masteries, skill builds, game strategy and item builds, I created and added a guide to leading. It finally looks like a full guide now. Hooray.


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Taiwan Terror

Recruiter

07-26-2010

Awesome guide this is basically how I play Kog in matches ;p the same build too

Although I would just like to point out a correction you had in the rune section ;p

Quote:
Woozl:

Runes:
An ideal rune page for Kog would be Flat Magic Pen Marks to increase damage, scaling mana regeneration Seals for survivability, flat Cooldown reduction Glyphs for more spam, and HP Quints. The completed page stats should be: 8.55 Magic Pen, 6.75% Dodge, 5.85% Cooldown reduction, and 97.4 Health.


You start off recommending mana regen/lvl seals - but end up saying in the completed page stats that you should be getting dodge =\

should just change the dodge to mana regen at lvl 18

But a very informative and helpful guide =]

Allowing an AP kog with this amount of damage to attack uninterrupted can cause tremendous amounts of damage, adding to the fact that Kog attacks from an extreme range ;p its hard to get to you if you position yourself right in teamfights

Remember you can attack from the fog of war, so the enemy won't know where you're firing from


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Woozl

Senior Member

07-26-2010

Thanks for the feedback! Guess when I was doing all the durn math I forgot to change the rune section. I really hope Kog becomes more of a common sight; he is quite a rarity as it is.


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Hoywolf

Senior Member

07-27-2010

Quote:
Redenbacher:
A few issues caught my eye with this guide.

1) Rylai's Scepter - My understanding is the slow effects are separate, not additive, and the larger of the two takes precedence. Thus, this will only cause your Caustic Spittle and Artillery to have an added slow effect, and does not add to Void Ooze. Not horrible, but probably makes it more of a luxury than a core build.

2) Leveling E over W - Even if you're going AP, I don't see how W is useless to you. It deals magic damage based on percentage of AP, and might just help snag you that early kill from the added range on an over-aggressive lane opponent. Caustic Spittle, on the other hand, requires Kog to get right up in their face - where you don't want to be. Your opening statement is to 'stay away, use E and R to win'... Well why not use E, W, and R to win. If they're in range for Void Ooze, they're in range for W - more DPS is never a bad thing.

I'm not saying you're wrong, as I'm not a Kog player (only tried him once so far... and loved it), these things just jumped out at me


I'm a Kog player and I feel that W is better than Q, Q is decent, but its a debuff at most, you can not utilize it if not one is hitting the target you debuffed. W is great in the early games its cheap 50 mana that you can use to punish heroes that get to close, with the range and the % damage you can rip any hero apart. Normally I would be in the top or bot lane where you will tend to fight the tanks, you can cut them down to size to make them back off or retreat. Your not going to get kills with this, but you will be able to out harass aggressive characters without a good escape skill.

Rylai's is not a bad idea, its got AP and HP with is great for Kog, it doesnt stack, but you can do a lot of crazy slows with your ult.

Also its better to use the per level runes, your not going to need the mana regen and CD reduction pre-level 6 anyways, by the time you are an actual threat which is level 11, your runes are equal to the flat ones, and any succeeding levels are just bonus.


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Heat n Serve

Senior Member

07-28-2010

I don't follow where your 1.66 comes from in the equations. Could you please elaborate more?


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Heat n Serve

Senior Member

07-28-2010

If it is anything like Madred's Bloodrazors (which I think it is), it will add magic damage separate from the physical attack damage.


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Numbat

Senior Member

07-28-2010

Quote:
Heat n Serve:
If it is anything like Madred's Bloodrazors (which I think it is), it will add magic damage separate from the physical attack damage.


This is indeed the case. You can notice it easily if you watch the numbers that pop up when you autoattack. With BAB you get two, with BAB and madred's you get three.


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Woozl

Senior Member

07-28-2010

Quote:
Heat n Serve:
If it is anything like Madred's Bloodrazors (which I think it is), it will add magic damage separate from the physical attack damage.

This is correct.
Quote:
Heat n Serve:
I don't follow where your 1.66 comes from in the equations. Could you please elaborate more?

The 1.66 comes from the bonus damage that you would get due to armor penetration or magic penetration. Since I was trying to accentuate the best DPS these build would do, I used the average base MR and Armor of mages: Annie, Veigar, Kog, Heimer, etc. The average Armor tended to be around 60-65, while the average MR tended to be 30-35. The AD DPS build had 40 Armor pen and the AP DPS build has 20 MR Pen. To make the numbers more simplified, I assumed 60 armor and 30 MR. 40/60=2/3, meaning it would penetrate 66% of the enemies defenses. Same for Magic Pen.


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Heat n Serve

Senior Member

07-28-2010

Yeah you can't do that. You are multiplying base damage by a ratio of of damage reductions. All that tells you is the multiplier to get from damage done on 60 armor targets to damage done on 20 armor targets (also, it's the wrong multiplier anyway; should be 160/120=1.3333). You never actually accounted for any damage reduction, so you are grossly exaggerating your DPS.

Assuming 40 armor pen on a 60 armor target and 20 magic pen on a 30 resist target, you should end up with this...

AD Math:
(263 x 1.413 x 100/120) + (108 x 1.413) x 100/110 or (270 x 1.413) x 100/110 = 656.5 max DPS or 448.4 constant DPS

AP Math Q/E:
260+(370 x 100/110) = 596.4

AP Math W DPS
1.127 x [(6% + 5.25%) x 2700 x 100/110 + 100 x 100/120] = 405.1 DPS for 6 seconds

AP Math R
(160 + 158.25) x 1.5 x 100/110 = 434.0 x 1/0.85 = 510.6
I read in another guide that the 1.5 doesn't apply to the AP-based bonus damage. Not sure which is right, but you may want to check on that.

And yes... I know what I'm talking about. I can math this stuff like a pro:
http://leaguecraft.com/strategies/gameguide/133-heat-n-serve-s-guide-to-mathcrafting.xhtml

You don't use science to show that you're right, you use [correct math and an understanding of game mechanics] to become right.