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Top Tank-y Dps Picks?

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Annaed

Senior Member

12-06-2011

Quote:
Cauldrath:

Personally, I think I got more bang for my buck, especially since half your advantage is in things that don't work well with Riven's kit.

Not many options for grabbing a stat you really need or managing your offense-defense ratio - two defensive stats, 2 offensive (1 of which doesn't increase her damage much for the cost), 1 utility.


ok, several things i have to say to this post...

1. I also receive 10% cdr from brut.. and you didnt account for the runes that I use that make a decent impact.
2. "half your advantage is things that don't work well with Riven's kit" --- What?? what doesn't work well with her kit?
3. Since when has there been a designated offense-defense ratio? And I did mention that there are other options if required to be more tanky, however imo riven is more of an asset to her team going full damage... and my damage output greatly exceeds yours.
4. I should have mentioned this but if there is not a lot of cc, I would go with boots of lucidity as well but since most teams I encounter have lots of cc I generally pick mercs, especially because she's melee and very reliant on her abilities (silence hurts).
5. Check out my match history

Random thought: I usually end most games with prospectors>mercs>brutalizer>sanguine>IE
Sometimes I get the chance to build into Youmuus, but this doesnt happen too often. At this point she does tons of damage and has lots of sustain with her dash/shield and lifesteal and doesnt really need the defense to survive... I always do well with this build.


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Cauldrath

Senior Member

12-07-2011

Quote:
Annaed:
ok, several things i have to say to this post...

1. I also receive 10% cdr from brut.. and you didnt account for the runes that I use that make a decent impact.


I counted the 15% from Ghostblade, which you upgraded to in the game I checked. I don't know what runepage you use, but guess what? I also have a runepage that gives me tons of AD, armor, CDR, and a little MR.

Quote:
2. "half your advantage is things that don't work well with Riven's kit" --- What?? what doesn't work well with her kit?


Passives that stack from a large number of autoattacks (Sanguine Blade), crit (balanced for characters that it affects 100% of their damage, affects 2/3rd of Riven's AAs, so... a little under 1/3 of her damage?), and AS (Ghostblade).

Quote:
3. Since when has there been a designated offense-defense ratio? And I did mention that there are other options if required to be more tanky, however imo riven is more of an asset to her team going full damage... and my damage output greatly exceeds yours.


It's more of an issue in solo queue - if your team is too squishy and won't reliably stay in a team fight, someone is going to be taking way more damage than they should and Riven's global taunt might be stronger than Teemo's. Being able to realize that your tank is useless or your tanky dps won't fight with you and then doing damage control with your build has value.

Quote:
4. I should have mentioned this but if there is not a lot of cc, I would go with boots of lucidity as well but since most teams I encounter have lots of cc I generally pick mercs, especially because she's melee and very reliant on her abilities (silence hurts).


I don't fault you at all for Merc Treads, they're a great choice that occasionally I grab or sometimes even Cloak+Dagger if I change my mind later and am desperate for some Tenacity, but I use Cleanse and, even after the huge CD nerf, it is often sufficient. If I could effectively get both CDR and Tenacity, I would, but her CDR options are pretty bad. She doesn't feel like playing Riven with less than ~35% CDR to me, either, since you get those dead times when every ability is on cooldown and sometimes, below ~25%, you have no passive stacks. Like you said, she's very reliant on her abilities.

Quote:
5. Check out my match history


I did. We're both roughly around +30, except I solo queue in draft and you run premades in blind pick with a Poppy, Irelia, and Akali, so you can afford to build squishier with other tanky melees to soak up both aggro and damage and an assassin that can grab attention really well for a short time, plus you can rely on your teammates to generally do what they always do.

Quote:
Random thought: I usually end most games with prospectors>mercs>brutalizer>sanguine>IE
Sometimes I get the chance to build into Youmuus, but this doesnt happen too often. At this point she does tons of damage and has lots of sustain with her dash/shield and lifesteal and doesnt really need the defense to survive... I always do well with this build.


At this money point your build fares a little better relative to mine, but I still think mine is better. Youmuu's is something you upgrade to when you don't have any more slots, not something you build towards, unless you want to build another Brutalizer afterwards. From this point in your build, filling all the extra slots with BF swords would be better, if you wanted to stay all AD.

Really, if I wanted to build Riven as pure dps, I would build Youmuu's (get the longswords for the second Brutalizer before Avarice Blade), Brutalizer, Merc Treads, BF Sword x 3 (or swap out for Last Whisper and/or Bilgewater Cutlass), then upgrade one to Entropy, then upgrade the others into whatever, since they're all pretty bad choices in one way or another. At the point of the Entropy, you'll have about the same price point I compared previously, 215 AD and 25% CDR (which runes and masteries can easily get to 35-40%), which are her most important stats.


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Annaed

Senior Member

12-07-2011

Quote:
Cauldrath:

Passives that stack from a large number of autoattacks (Sanguine Blade), crit (balanced for characters that it affects 100% of their damage, affects 2/3rd of Riven's AAs, so... a little under 1/3 of her damage?), and AS (Ghostblade).

Really, if I wanted to build Riven as pure dps, I would build Youmuu's (get the longswords for the second Brutalizer before Avarice Blade), Brutalizer, Merc Treads, BF Sword x 3 (or swap out for Last Whisper and/or Bilgewater Cutlass), then upgrade one to Entropy, then upgrade the others into whatever, since they're all pretty bad choices in one way or another. At the point of the Entropy, you'll have about the same price point I compared previously, 215 AD and 25% CDR (which runes and masteries can easily get to 35-40%), which are her most important stats.


I understand that in certain circumstances your build has the potential to be more advantageous (especially if you play a lot of solo queue. I can actually rely on my teammates to do their job which allows me to carry my team to victory).

In response to your comment about certain items not fitting well with her kit, I think you are forgetting something incredibly important about riven and that is her passive. If you are not taking advantage of this then you are playing her wrong. She is very reliant on her abilities but it is important to auto attack to make use of her passive, the passive on sanguine, and her crit. I've been able to take people down with low health by just dashing to them and auto attacking because of the ad bonus from passive and the crit. This also allows me to have amazing sustain from sanguine..

I've tried out multiple builds and so far this is the build that suits me the best and maximized my damage output. I've never really had to alter my build either. I thoroughly enjoy watching people crumble beneath me and have learned how to play her so that I don't require resistances.

Also how did you view my match history? is there a 3rd party website or something?

Edit: Just checked your match history and realized you only have 140 wins.. This could be the reason why this build works ok for you cause its better to go defensive to play it safe, especially in solo queue. I've had a lot of practice on this map and with riven. I would like to say that i have really good grasp on how to use her in dominion, which is why this build works so well for me.


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Keiji Cupcakes

Senior Member

12-07-2011

Wukong is rape incarnate, IMO. And one of my favorite champs ever. I'd reccomend masteries and runes be pure tanky stuff, then building a bit of MR and a bit of armor as the game progresses, his passive really helps for tankyness, especially with big groups. He's also a cakewalk as bot. The bush hiding thing has gotten me more than one kill from an antsy opponent who go too close.

PS - What would happen if I built Warmogs, Atmas, AND mallet on summoner's rift?


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Lameador

Senior Member

12-07-2011

Other than Yorick my top 3 is Blitzcrank, Wukong and Jax.

A sleeper imo is Udyr, Not that he is amazing but nobody plays him, and he is ok.


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Cauldrath

Senior Member

12-07-2011

Quote:
Annaed:
In response to your comment about certain items not fitting well with her kit, I think you are forgetting something incredibly important about riven and that is her passive. If you are not taking advantage of this then you are playing her wrong. She is very reliant on her abilities but it is important to auto attack to make use of her passive, the passive on sanguine, and her crit. I've been able to take people down with low health by just dashing to them and auto attacking because of the ad bonus from passive and the crit. This also allows me to have amazing sustain from sanguine..


You actually quoted where I mentioned her passive: "balanced for characters that it affects 100% of their damage, affects 2/3rd of Riven's AAs, so... a little under 1/3 of her damage?"

The way her passive works means that you should be using your abilities just as often (or 3 times more, but never less) as you use your autoattacks . If you just stand there autoattacking, you'll run out of passive stacks very fast, so you'll be well into a fight before Sanguine Blade gets built up if you are getting passive procs on all your autoattacks. It's best to alternate, or QWE really fast to max out your stacks before alternating so you get your CDs running as fast as possible. Also, life steal, while amazing on certain characters, is only half as good for Riven, because she does about half damage from AAs and half damage from abilities, depending on how much AD and crit you have, so it's only good and not awesome, like AD and CDR are. Her passive does work with life steal, though, so when you have it, it makes CDR that much better than AS.

Quote:
Also how did you view my match history? is there a 3rd party website or something?


Apparently these forums don't like links anymore, but I'll tag these in case it retroactively fixes it:

http://www.leagueofstats.com/summoners/us/23907531/summary

allows you to see people's wins and losses. I also check

http://www.lolstatistics.com//player/na/23907531

so I can see ELO adjustments. So, games where you have a full pre-made and win, you might only get 5 ELO, where solo queue games will give you 11-14. Loses seem to be 11-14 regardless.

Quote:
Just checked your match history and realized you only have 140 wins.


You do realize 253 games of Dominion represents over 100 hours of play time?


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Annaed

Senior Member

12-08-2011

@cauldrath ---didn't feel like quoting your post..
thx for that link that helps.

So I looked into the whole sanguine thing because I understand that you are not auto attacking as often as some other champs that build this item, so here are my thoughts...

I like lifesteal on riven, I feel like its necessary and useful. So I looked into other items that could replace it. Which are bilgewater cutlass(which you use), starks fervor, and executioners calling. Bilgewater only gives you 35 AD and same amount of lifesteal as sanguine without stacks (also has unique active), Starks gives you AS which is not really useful for Riven but 5 additional lifesteal, and executioner's only gives you crit but also gives 3% more lifesteal.

So my thought is if bilgewater gives less AD and same amount of lifesteal not even accounting for the stacks on sanguine then why does it matter that she doesn't make full use of its passive? Yes it is a much more expensive item but you cant build bilgewater into anything so its kind of a wasted space imo because the amount of AD is much greater with sanguine.

I guess when it comes down to it, its all about our play style. I use more tanky runes so I don't build tanky at all. You use more AD runes so you build more tanky. If that works for you, then great. But I would recommend trying my build out just to see what you think of it... its fun to smash peoples faces in with all the AD and Crit i build

PS. On that last comment, I have almost double the amount of games played... just sayin.


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Alfendi

Senior Member

12-08-2011

Honestly? Is Jarvan IV so underplayed? He WRECKS Akali and literally any squishy that isn't a huge DPS/AD king (examples such as Yi and Vayne).
I never build him tank, but I found that picking up Trinity Force, Executioner's Calling, and Atma's is enough for me to wreck about half of any person's HP with his combo. His passive is RIDICULOUS if used well, and he's naturally tanky with his Aegis Leon...(is that what his W was called?)


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Ryios

Senior Member

01-14-2013

Riven can be tanky and still hurt, a lot of items give health + ad, and armor + ad. E.g. Black Cleaver gives health, frozen mallet gives 30AD, Maw of Malthorius gives AD and a spell shield at <50% health. Mercurial Scimitar allows Riven to remove CC's on a 90 second cd, it has 60AD and 45 magic resist.

If I need to be tanky I build

Merc Treads -> Black Cleaver -> Frozen Malet -> Mercurial Scepter -> then I either build more AD like BT, or WarMogs, Guardian Angel, or Thornmail, depending on the enemy team comp and at what order the enemy team is building their items.


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Redeemed In Fire

Senior Member

01-14-2013

>WarMogs

This isn't SR, that name isn't capitalized like that, and this thread is a month old...