@Riot, Promote is a problem.

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Lameador

Senior Member

12-01-2011

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The fact that it makes MORE champions viable bottom
No, it make less.
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Also, promote the minion wave bottom, go top to assist. Problem?
This is not even reasonable

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Most good bot laners can do without it and against ANY AD bot laner or good pusher the super minion is going to be killed anyway.
Certain champs with Promote, destroy most champs without promote. No Ad has a chance early game against a good pusher+promote.

Most good bot laners... That reduce the number of champs? So instead of almost any champ being good bot, you have to reduce it quite significantly without promote. Almost every champ is viable if Promote doesnt exist. But since it exist, the ability to stop promote pushes it's very relevant, as is the ability to use a promote as a summoner spell.

Yes it's needed to hold bot. Give me ryze, Malzahar, (im not even going to name the permabanned yorick), or even good pushers like Jarvan. Attach promote, and I want to see you stopping my push without promote with half of the cast.

Im willing to test it. I know that I will take your bot before minute 6. Pick somethign like irelia with no promote, give me mal with promote, I will take your bot before minute 6 and NOTHING you can do.

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It's not useless outside of bot because it helps neutralize a turret when you're trying to assault it.
Its very close to useless, most of the game is defined in the jungle. And Promote is even inferior to garrison in taking points. Also most champs need of summoner spells to be effective, by forcing them to take promote if they want to open bot, you are reducing the amount of viable champs bot.


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Nekrogen

Senior Member

12-02-2011

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Originally Posted by Lameador View Post
No, it make less.
Explain.
I was under the impression that semi-decent pushers like Jarvan, Ryze (pre-6), Kogmaw, Kassadin (doesn't usually go bot, but is perfectly viable with promote), Riven, etc. thrive with the ability to free harass their opponent without worrying too much about the minion wave. It's also useful on heavy pushers, but so are other summoners.

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This is not even reasonable
.
Force your opponent to go back. Promote the wave. You now have 2 options: 1) go back and heal and get the afk neutralize, 2) Assist in killing their ganker that is currently in combat with your ganker, or assist in the teamfight that erupted in mid jungle. I agree moving all the way top without backing is unreasonable, but walking a slight distance away from your lane to assist your teammates is very beneficial to your team and it's nice to know you're probably going to get an afk neutralize in the process.

It was actually pretty OP before the summoner spell rework when its CD was about half of what it is now.


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IS1eae7cbb510cc9b1e2028

Senior Member

12-02-2011

Take anything without promote vs yorick with promote and they will lose. Especially if the promoter is smart and waits until the large minion is about to die, so he gets the most out of the promote.

Promote is a VERY good spell for bottom, and has helped me get a couple of needed caps at top adn mid, just beacuse of the promoted minion. Heck, i've even promoted a normal minion just to increase the capping speed just to neutralize a point instead of having to back off and not neutralizing. When the score is 4-12 you WILL want to get that neutralize.

even better: get a nice minion stack. Push enemy minions hard, promote at last second. If the enemy just has a duelist defending, they will most probably lose the point to just the minions.

So, why remove promote? You're making it sound like you're losing to people who take promote and you didn't take it.


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FDru

Senior Member

12-02-2011

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Originally Posted by Eface View Post
Take anything without promote vs yorick with promote and they will lose. Especially if the promoter is smart and waits until the large minion is about to die, so he gets the most out of the promote.
Take Yorick without Promote vs anything with Promote and Yorick wins. What a silly example.

And he's just one of the many champs that will eat your super minion like it's nothing and keep on going.


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Lameador

Senior Member

12-02-2011

Quote:
Explain.
I was under the impression that semi-decent pushers like Jarvan, Ryze (pre-6), Kogmaw, Kassadin (doesn't usually go bot, but is perfectly viable with promote), Riven, etc. thrive with the ability to free harass their opponent without worrying too much about the minion wave. It's also useful on heavy pushers, but so are other summoners.
My experience is that actually those are more powerful than other bots for that reason. They can zone you, and then you have a giant promote guy, and if you dont have promote, you are going to be capped.
Take anivia. She cant fight those pre level 6, she is gonna be zoned, which is bad enough, but the promote will seal the deal SO FAST that anivia is a sitting duck. Anivia will lose bot 100% of the time against anyone with promote. I would say maybe even having promote herself.

But let's go claim by claim:
1. Less champs are viable.
Why? because many, specially squishy champs, Ap nukers and ranged ad, rely on Summoner spells to survive the jungle. If they have to use one slot for Promote it hurts them. So what's the solution? The solution is to not pick those champs, instead go pick one of the champs that can survive the jungle with out promote.
The reason Promote reduce the viability of champs bot is that it consume a summoner spell, imagine that you remove one summoner spell slot tomorrow in lol You know what will happen? the tier list will changes. Because a lot of champs lose viability, thats what promote does, removing a summoner spell, removing viability.

2. Someone without promote can stop someone with promote. Rarely true, incidentally for the same reason nekrogen said some champs are viable. Some champs can go and fight 1v1 and zone badly, in the meantime a promote is going to eat the creepwave, if you dont have the promote to let both big guys fighting, he can zone you and let the 2 creep waves fight and the one with promote will be win badly, before you know you have a huge unstoppable creepwave that is more scary than the opponent champ.
Again, I'm willing to try again anyone. The only way the guy with promote (guy A) do not overwhelm the guy without promote (guy B), is in a match where if both players had promtoe B would overwhelm A.

3) If you send the guy buck you put more pressure, promote or not, no reason to go help the ganker fight when you can VERY FAST take the point, specially if you have the promote.
Of course bot should go top or help mid fights etc if he is pushing well (which brings me to the point where champs that need summoner spells to survive those fights, are handicapped bottom by the presence of promote)

Edit: Yeah plz dont even talk about yorick, he is a broken piece that should be banned and not even worth talking.


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The Bev

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Recruiter

12-02-2011

Not sure if Lameador is trolling or not o.O
Maybe just a young angry kid?


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lbgsloan

Senior Member

12-02-2011

Promote is not necessary for bottom. Ghost is not useless beyond rushing windmill at the start. All summoners are situational, and champion and enemy comp specific. You can make a case for any summoner on Dominion, except for CV and Clarity. Yes, even Smite can have its uses in rare situations.


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Lameador

Senior Member

12-04-2011

Bump


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