Living Tier List

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Salfos

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Member

11-28-2011

I think Shen should be moved, because I play him well on Dominion. He got a taunt which is great for interrupt and set up your team. Run Garrison to help fight at towers and take either heal or ghost are good choices. his Ult is good to move back and forth real quick or aid struggling bot. Building him as a tank he can protect lot more weaker characters. You may not get points for going all over and helping out when needed, but if you playing as the man hanging around while people are capping saying "Don't mess with them or ima get in your face" you can have lots of safe caps and strong force in front to take intial force.


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GrignardTS

Senior Member

11-28-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Salfos View Post
I think Shen should be moved, because I play him well on Dominion. He got a taunt which is great for interrupt and set up your team. Run Garrison to help fight at towers and take either heal or ghost are good choices. his Ult is good to move back and forth real quick or aid struggling bot. Building him as a tank he can protect lot more weaker characters. You may not get points for going all over and helping out when needed, but if you playing as the man hanging around while people are capping saying "Don't mess with them or ima get in your face" you can have lots of safe caps and strong force in front to take intial force.
He's a limited character.

He must go top, due to his ultimate.

He offers one, short AoE taunt that has a hefty energy cost.

His damage is mediocre at best, pitiful at worst.

His ultimate, to which he is balanced around, is less useful on Dominion due to its long CD at early levels, and general removal of the importance of a single engagement in Dominion. In SR, single team fights are more valuable, making his ultimate more valuable. In Dominion this is not the case.

This is not an argument that people can't do well with Shen. Its just that other champions that fill the same role he plays bring more suitable kits.


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Krucx

Junior Member

11-29-2011

I'm gonna have to say that I honestly believe Udyr needs to be moved up a tier.


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Taiyodori

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Senior Member

11-29-2011

Good tier list, but I have to disagree with some positions:

As for Rammus, even though almost everyone considers him to be op, I really don't see why. Don't get me wrong, I think he is good, but not god-tier. While he is capable of defending a cp for some time and to backdoor quite efficiently that's about it.
What makes him that seemingly effective right now is a meta with way too much tanky dps champions who fall for his taunt and W.

As for the Kassadin and Leblanc comparison:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inkyjinx View Post
her Q and E are on ~ 3-4s cooldowns and her blink (W - Distortion) is a great juke/escape - considering she can throw off any team by returning. she also has a snare with gives her a ton of escape.

and - even still - her burst of just Q+R is on par with Kassadin's full chain.

at 300AP / lv. 18

LeBlanc Q+R = Q 230(+180) + R 574 + Q (pop) 100(+90) = 1174
Kassadin R+Q+E = R 120(+150) + Q 280(+210) + E 280(+210) = 1250

if LeBlanc adds a W or E to the chain (E, generally, so you can keep the W for escape) it buries Kassain and surpasses Fizz's damage and means your opponent has been silenced for 4s and snared for 2.2s (E with 2 procs on E and the added R proc means an additional 580 + 266 = 846).

heck, with a little CDR (and good timing) she can Q/R/E and get a second Q in to proc off the 2nd E (snare) proc.

also, Distortion allows you to dodge many attacks - though not as many as Fizz's Trickster, admittedly - but is far more flexible for going over walls/around corners and vanishing due to a +200 range.

finally, calling her a '1 trick pony' is really underestimating the flexibility afforded by her different combos, like snaring someone under turrets.
I think you can not compare LeBlanc's to Kassadin's like that, because...
...if you compare their dmg:
- Don't forget to add Kassadins W (usually 2-3 AAs until the silence duration is over and he can ult again); yes it's a buff to his autoattacks, but it also scales off AP and has a high bonus dmg for each base attack.
- Kassadin's R can be stacked to higher it's dmg, though - admittedly - it will cost a lot of mana then.

...if you compare their roles:
- Kassadin is also capable of building pretty tanky without losing too much dmg while leblanc for some reason is not. :/
- His R and E are AoE-spells, while Leblanc has only single target-spells (considering you don't use her W as a primary dmg spell)
- Kassadin has more mobility due to his low cd on R, while Leblanc has to save W as an escape spell
- Kassadin's silence doesn't require him to trigger it with a second spell
- His slow on E is much more reliable than leblancs E

You are right, that LeBlanc's dmg surpasses Kassadin's on a single target. But that's about all she surpasses him at, nothing more.
Therefore I don't see LeBlanc useful for much more than a single-target assassin, that easily kills anyone who doesn't build any resistance. Don't compare champions based solely on their single-target dmg.


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Aviseras

Senior Member

11-29-2011

Anyone who doesn't understand why Rammus is god-tier hasn't played a good Rammus.

He can 2v1 defend almost anyone and with his insane mobility your team almost has 6 players instead of 5.


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Taiyodori

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Senior Member

11-29-2011

As I said, I think he is good, but not god-tier.
Yes he can defend 1v2. This is simply what makes a good defender, not a god-tier.

Compared to the other god-tier considered champions:
- Shaco can defend 1v3, even 1v4 some times, at least long enough until the rest of his team arrives. He doesn't even need to be there, his jitb are enough to defend on their own until his enemies pushed the creep wave. (That is, because they're invincible now to AoE while not active)
Shaco also had high mobility and incredible jungle control, without any risk to get catched, if he backdoors. Played as AD, he does incredible single-target dmg; as played as AP he almost kills squishies who accidently run into one single jitb.

- Poppy can defend 1v2 and even kill those 2 in seconds without any problems, if they dare to get to close to the cp. She also has a pretty good mobility with her speed-boost and she is amazing at killing most defending champions without getting dmg from the cp and more than one champion.

- Rammus on the other hand can just defend. You have to cp-dive for him to kill you there alone.
I can't take the cp 2v1 against rammus, so what? It would be stupid to try, if I know that! Just get the undefended cp (usually mid) and leave one person in the jungle, who can retreat to take the cp rammus was defending, in case that he leaves. Another option is to gank bot and take their bot cp. It doesn't have to be Windmill or whichever CP rammus is defending.
The big mistake people make is to try hard killing Rammus while he defends a CP, especially as a melee-dmg-dealer. Don't fight him in a position he is made for.
On SR you would't towerdive a Rammus (or any other tank) with 2 persons either. Why would you in Dominion?
Aside from his defending/tanking capability he has nothing, except his high mobility. Oh yeah, he can make a single champion focus him for some seconds... there are many champion's who have equally good cc spells or even better.

Again: I don't think Rammus is bad; he just isn't equal to Poppy or Shaco.


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GrignardTS

Senior Member

11-29-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taiyodori View Post
As I said, I think he is good, but not god-tier.
Yes he can defend 1v2. This is simply what makes a good defender, not a god-tier.
His defense is not what makes him god tier.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Krucx View Post
I'm gonna have to say that I honestly believe Udyr needs to be moved up a tier.
He has no gap closer, no escape.

His abilities don't allow him to perform a particular task greatly. He's a good tank, has good damage, decent CC.

He's a good pick, however there are stronger.


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Taiyodori

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Senior Member

11-29-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noitcurtsed View Post
His defense is not what makes him god tier.
If the god-tier position is neither for his defense nor his mobility: What else is it?
Come on, you should be able to explain positioning him in that tier.


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GrignardTS

Senior Member

11-29-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taiyodori View Post
If the god-tier position is neither for his defense nor his mobility: What else is it?
Come on, you should be able to explain positioning him in that tier.
Since you asked so nicely

Rammus is god tier because of his ability to be any where on the map at any time. His extreme mobility (which I never said that it wasn't a reason) allows him to be a part of any fight at any time.

Meaning, he can simultaneously attack and defend points, engage in jungle fights, gank, you name it.


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Recnik

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Senior Member

11-29-2011

Move brand up.
Brand is a great defender with his bounce ultimate, AoE W, Multi-Target E, and Stun Q.
He can also gank a 2-man defense well with his crazy burst.
He can assault a lane with teammates and easily take down foes.
Why is he this low?