Living Tier List

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Inkyjinx

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Senior Member

11-27-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noitcurtsed View Post
LeBlancs only hurt mid game.

And even then a simple negatron cloak makes her much less effective.
she hurts more mid and late game; and a Negatron Cloak makes any AP character less effective.

if Kassadin and Fizz are tier 2, i can't see LeBlanc being any lower. perhaps those two are too high - that's perspective.


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Argodis

Senior Member

11-27-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noitcurtsed View Post
In SR, harassing is such a major part of the game. You need to harass champions past minion lines, harass at enemy towers. Gragas has good range. But he's so slow and clunky on Dominion. He is only really viable bot and even then he gets out pushed by many other champions.
And this is why Dominion doesn't need ranked or maybe this is a perfect example why Dominion does need ranked.

Because people like you are so blind and biased that you cannot see facts. I just gave you facts yet you still won't budge.

I don't understand how you can push out someone who one shots a creep wave and does it at a range so far that you can't harass him.

I don't understand how a champ that has a built in escape AND higher base movement speed than most other casters can be considered "slow and clunky."

You're even arguing that LeBlanc falls off late game when that argument was only viable on SR because her kit is not made for 5v5 team fights and she is hard countered by BVeil, neither of which is present on Dominion. LeBlanc has one of the highest total AP ratios in the game if not the highest. Her damage only gets better as the game progresses.


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GrignardTS

Senior Member

11-27-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Argodis View Post
You're even arguing that LeBlanc falls off late game when that argument was only viable on SR because her kit is not made for 5v5 team fights and she is hard countered by BVeil, neither of which is present on Dominion. LeBlanc has one of the highest total AP ratios in the game if not the highest. Her damage only gets better as the game progresses.
She is a one trick pony. Because of this, any defense will cripple her burst damage. Transitioning LeBlanc from a burst 100 to 0 to having to complete your combo 2-3 times a single champion shows her weakness.

These are opinions, not facts. Please don't bring hostility in here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inkyjinx View Post
she hurts more mid and late game; and a Negatron Cloak makes any AP character less effective.

if Kassadin and Fizz are tier 2, i can't see LeBlanc being any lower. perhaps those two are too high - that's perspective.
Fizz and Kassadin have such high ratings due to their escape being extremely potent. Kassadin has a blink and Fizz can dodge entire attacks once every ~10s.

Once LeBlanc blows her load, she is just waiting to die.


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Inkyjinx

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Senior Member

11-27-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noitcurtsed View Post
Fizz and Kassadin have such high ratings due to their escape being extremely potent. Kassadin has a blink and Fizz can dodge entire attacks once every ~10s.

Once LeBlanc blows her load, she is just waiting to die.
completely false. her Q and E are on ~ 3-4s cooldowns and her blink (W - Distortion) is a great juke/escape - considering she can throw off any team by returning. she also has a snare with gives her a ton of escape.

and - even still - her burst of just Q+R is on par with Kassadin's full chain.

at 300AP / lv. 18

LeBlanc Q+R = Q 230(+180) + R 574 + Q (pop) 100(+90) = 1174
Kassadin R+Q+E = R 120(+150) + Q 280(+210) + E 280(+210) = 1250

if LeBlanc adds a W or E to the chain (E, generally, so you can keep the W for escape) it buries Kassain and surpasses Fizz's damage and means your opponent has been silenced for 4s and snared for 2.2s (E with 2 procs on E and the added R proc means an additional 580 + 266 = 846).

heck, with a little CDR (and good timing) she can Q/R/E and get a second Q in to proc off the 2nd E (snare) proc.

also, Distortion allows you to dodge many attacks - though not as many as Fizz's Trickster, admittedly - but is far more flexible for going over walls/around corners and vanishing due to a +200 range.

finally, calling her a '1 trick pony' is really underestimating the flexibility afforded by her different combos, like snaring someone under turrets.


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GrignardTS

Senior Member

11-27-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inkyjinx View Post
... and her blink (W - Distortion) is a great juke/escape - considering she can throw off any team by returning....
She is a single target burst champion. She is not as good as others due to them having higher mobility and AoE damage / CC. Her blink is 20s to 12s. It is much shorter than Kass's blink and much more limited than Fizz's.

This is my opinion.


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Argodis

Senior Member

11-27-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inkyjinx View Post
completely false. her Q and E are on ~ 3-4s cooldowns and her blink (W - Distortion) is a great juke/escape - considering she can throw off any team by returning. she also has a snare with gives her a ton of escape.

and - even still - her burst of just Q+R is on par with Kassadin's full chain.

at 300AP / lv. 18

LeBlanc Q+R = Q 230(+180) + R 574 + Q (pop) 100(+90) = 1174
Kassadin R+Q+E = R 120(+150) + Q 280(+210) + E 280(+210) = 1250

if LeBlanc adds a W or E to the chain (E, generally, so you can keep the W for escape) it buries Kassain and surpasses Fizz's damage and means your opponent has been silenced for 4s and snared for 2.2s (E with 2 procs on E and the added R proc means an additional 580 + 266 = 846).

heck, with a little CDR (and good timing) she can Q/R/E and get a second Q in to proc off the 2nd E (snare) proc.

also, Distortion allows you to dodge many attacks - though not as many as Fizz's Trickster, admittedly - but is far more flexible for going over walls/around corners and vanishing due to a +200 range.

finally, calling her a '1 trick pony' is really underestimating the flexibility afforded by her different combos, like snaring someone under turrets.
There is no point in continuing to argue with him.

It's his loss.


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GrignardTS

Senior Member

11-28-2011

After thinking about it, I admit that I am probably underestimating her kit slightly. It is very similar to fizz and kassadin.

I will move her up.


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Inkyjinx

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Senior Member

11-28-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Argodis View Post
There is no point in continuing to argue with him.

It's his loss.
why thank you.

* * *

it is a good point, LeBlanc has pretty much no AoE - besides Distortion. and let's face it, you're not using Distortion to hit 3 people in most cases.

i think, really, it's a perception of how much 1v1 there is in Dominion - and this varies wildly based on team comps and playstyle. it's his list.


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GrignardTS

Senior Member

11-28-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inkyjinx View Post
why thank you.

* * *

it is a good point, LeBlanc has pretty much no AoE - besides Distortion. and let's face it, you're not using Distortion to hit 3 people in most cases.

i think, really, it's a perception of how much 1v1 there is in Dominion - and this varies wildly based on team comps and playstyle. it's his list.
There is enough 1v1 and she is good enough at 2v1 to be considered a high tier pick. My personal experience with her hasn't been impressive. However, that is usually since I counter pick her with Blitz or Ali and simply protect my carries.

Most LB build pure glass cannon, so any champion that can ignore her burst is a real problem for her.

However, she has enough cc and mobility to be very useful in many skirmishes in dominion. Especially in the hands of an experienced player.


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Inkyjinx

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Senior Member

11-28-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noitcurtsed View Post
There is enough 1v1 and she is good enough at 2v1 to be considered a high tier pick. My personal experience with her hasn't been impressive. .
well, there are a LOT of bad, bad LeBlancs. when they're good, however...

thank you for the perspective.