Living Tier List

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Dimonoin

Member

11-27-2011

I like your list, it is pretty accurate. 2 things though:

1) Is the order inside the list important/relevant or they are in a random order? Because if it is relevant, I would definitely reconsider Vayne and Ryze in their current Tier 2 position and move them up (inside the tier).

2) (I know this isnt much of a "reason" but) I think Sona is a stronger pick than Tier 3. Id place her Tier 2 for sure. Im not a Sona player myself, but I know 2 or 3 Sonas around (in 5 premades) that are really really strong and often decide the flow of the matches by themselves. Not Tier 1 material, but definitely Tier 2 imo. Specially in 5-premades I think she's solid. Again I know Im not giving reasons its just what Ive seen around.

Another thing, Im wondering why is Alistar in Tier 2 in your opinion? Not saying it is wrong, I agree he is a solid pick anywhere, but I simply dont see him being played well in my matches which means people must be doing something right in your matches, so what is that "right" thing? I just made a thread in this forum asking about his optimal role/playstyle here so thats why Im asking you personally since you probably know this!

Btw to the guy mentioning Gragas, the problem is that while he can be a decent bot, he's still fairly easy to beat by the current strong bot picks like Ryze, Yorick and even Heimer before 6.


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GrignardTS

Senior Member

11-27-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dimonoin View Post
I like your list, it is pretty accurate. 2 things though:

1) Is the order inside the list important/relevant or they are in a random order? Because if it is relevant, I would definitely reconsider Vayne and Ryze in their current Tier 2 position and move them up (inside the tier).

2) (I know this isnt much of a "reason" but) I think Sona is a stronger pick than Tier 3. Id place her Tier 2 for sure. Im not a Sona player myself, but I know 2 or 3 Sonas around (in 5 premades) that are really really strong and often decide the flow of the matches by themselves. Not Tier 1 material, but definitely Tier 2 imo. Specially in 5-premades I think she's solid. Again I know Im not giving reasons its just what Ive seen around.

Another thing, Im wondering why is Alistar in Tier 2 in your opinion? Not saying it is wrong, I agree he is a solid pick anywhere, but I simply dont see him being played well in my matches which means people must be doing something right in your matches, so what is that "right" thing? I just made a thread in this forum asking about his optimal role/playstyle here so thats why Im asking you personally since you probably know this!

Btw to the guy mentioning Gragas, the problem is that while he can be a decent bot, he's still fairly easy to beat by the current strong bot picks like Ryze, Yorick and even Heimer before 6.
1) It is in alphabetical order. No relevance to ability. I feel that while some champions are stronger than others, generally dominion is set up that each champion is trying to accomplish different roles. So they are situational picks based on the comp you are facing. The tier list is merely designed to recognize that some champions can do more than one role exceedingly well.

2) I was on the fence with her to begin with. I'll move her up.

And Alistar is a devastating champion when build tanky CDR and finishing with AP damage. His ultimate provides the perfect guarding of towers with garrison and assaulting them as well.


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Argodis

Senior Member

11-27-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noitcurtsed View Post
Acceptable bot is one role. That is one role well, hence tier 3.
When you go take Windmill, you don't immediately dive everyone. That usually resorts in your team's death.

It consists mainly of poking and pushing the creep wave, all of which Gragas does well.

Oh and waiting for someone to make a mistake, separating the squishies from the tanks, beating a turtle comp, all of which where a Gragas ult can be a great asset.

He's also more mobile and has better scaling than most other mages. Not to mention the damage reduction his W gives which is big deal considering how AP casters need to make efficient use of their gold compared to other classes.


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ForgedLife

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Senior Member

11-27-2011

I like this tier list a lot, and I feel it is pretty accurate.

But as a relatively often Shaco player, I have some concerns. While AD Shaco can do tons of burst, Shaco as a champion is slow as is. He is strong, but I don't really think he's worthy of S tier.

From what I've seen, Shaco is banned more for his annoyingness, as his kit pretty much makes him a DB. I do prefer AP Shaco better, but I do agree that he does lack some here and there, such as having bad teamfight capabilities against good players and just that his shiv, while doing huge burst, is on a long cooldown.

And as a person that plays a lot of Shaco, I feel like he's a bit overrated due to some people not knowing how to deal with him. He's a strong pick, just not in the same level as rammus and such.

But thats just my 0.02 cents xD. Nice tier list


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Sizmic

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Senior Member

11-27-2011

I like the list for the most part. I would argu that Heimerdinger needs to be moved down too Tier 2 as he is basically a defender and when he tried to push any Tier 1 champ will kill him fairly quickly.


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Zulgaines

Senior Member

11-27-2011

Rammus needs to be in his own tier "OK Tier"


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GrignardTS

Senior Member

11-27-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Argodis View Post
When you go take Windmill, you don't immediately dive everyone. That usually resorts in your team's death.

It consists mainly of poking and pushing the creep wave, all of which Gragas does well.

Oh and waiting for someone to make a mistake, separating the squishies from the tanks, beating a turtle comp, all of which where a Gragas ult can be a great asset.

He's also more mobile and has better scaling than most other mages. Not to mention the damage reduction his W gives which is big deal considering how AP casters need to make efficient use of their gold compared to other classes.
Don't get me wrong, I am not inferring that if you play any of the tier 3 champions you are bad. But these picks have clear oversights. If you want an ap pusher, why not Alistar or Brand? Ap poke? Orianna, Nidalee.

There are many other champions that fill the roles you describe, while bringing other abilities to the table that are more suited for Dominion.

Quote:
But as a relatively often Shaco player, I have some concerns. While AD Shaco can do tons of burst, Shaco as a champion is slow as is. He is strong, but I don't really think he's worthy of S tier.
I am also an often shaco player. When I am Ad, I never have more than 7 deaths. I always go positive. The "tons of burst" you speak of doesn't give his burst justice. How about a guaranteed 800-1000 deceive crit every 7s? And that's with only 3 core items.

The amount of control of the map, defending, jungle vision, ganks, and Shaco's ability to pushs lanes without fear of jungle ganks makes him easily tier S.

He can backdoor, defend, burst, push, he gives vision, CC. The list goes on.

Quote:
I like the list for the most part. I would argu that Heimerdinger needs to be moved down too Tier 2 as he is basically a defender and when he tried to push any Tier 1 champ will kill him fairly quickly.
I understand he's susceptible to CC and ganks, but he defends and pushes so well that he is a very strong pick, top or bot when played and built correctly.


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Inkyjinx

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Senior Member

11-27-2011

i'd argue LeBlanc for tier 2. Fizz is a very similar champ (with more AoE ability but less burst) but on the Dominion map, LeBlanc causes massive chaos because of all the blind turns combined with her mobility and combo variety.

her burst is pretty much unequaled - she kills near any carry with 2 abilities and will easily half bar someone regardless of tankiness. she can hold a turret against anyone - and if well played - multiples.


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Argodis

Senior Member

11-27-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noitcurtsed View Post
Don't get me wrong, I am not inferring that if you play any of the tier 3 champions you are bad. But these picks have clear oversights. If you want an ap pusher, why not Alistar or Brand? Ap poke? Orianna, Nidalee.
You seriously can't be saying Alistar or Brand can knock down a wave faster and safer than Gragas... Being able to clear a wave from 1100 range with only a Q is nothing to sneeze at.

NIdalee is a 1 trick pony. All she can do is throw spears. Her heal is nerfed and she can't survive in cougar form without building bruiser which means her spear throw is even more worthless. Till this day I have lost every game that had an AP Nidalee on our team. Sure she can throw a spear for large % of someone's life and that's all she can do.

Orianna's too mana intensive to poke reliably and her damage is among the weakest among AP carries on Dominion until she gets a Deathcap and Void Staff. There is a difference between poking from 825 range with a .6 ratio and 1100 range with a .9 ratio AND lowers the attack speed of those that it hits. There ults are basically the same, a displacement ult with a .7 ratio vs a 1.0 ratio. Gragas wins there as well.

I don't understand how you can go from being one of the top AP carries in SR to bottom of the bucket in Dominion. They are different modes but they aren't that different.


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GrignardTS

Senior Member

11-27-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inkyjinx View Post
i'd argue LeBlanc for tier 2. Fizz is a very similar champ (with more AoE ability but less burst) but on the Dominion map, LeBlanc causes massive chaos because of all the blind turns combined with her mobility and combo variety.

her burst is pretty much unequaled - she kills near any carry with 2 abilities and will easily half bar someone regardless of tankiness. she can hold a turret against anyone - and if well played - multiples.
LeBlancs only hurt mid game.

And even then a simple negatron cloak makes her much less effective.

Quote:
I don't understand how you can go from being one of the top AP carries in SR to bottom of the bucket in Dominion. They are different modes but they aren't that different.
But they are.

In SR, harassing is such a major part of the game. You need to harass champions past minion lines, harass at enemy towers. Gragas has good range. But he's so slow and clunky on Dominion. He is only really viable bot and even then he gets out pushed by many other champions.


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