Full crit damage rune-page - opinions?

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ricklessabandon

qa analyst

11-27-2011
3 of 6 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by genericname885 View Post
Assuming a build of IE, PD and LW, I would have thought the Last Whisper would devalue your flat arp, while the IE and PD boosts the crit damage runes.
last whisper does decrease the 'value' of flat penetration, though infinity edge and phantom dancer should have no effect on calculations done for comparison.
in the case of last whisper, the cross-over point for the two rune sets wouldn't be ~50 armor--it would be a tighter gap than that.

if you're going to assume that you're always buying a last whisper though, you're better off with crit chance runes instead of crit damage (assuming you want the highest 'average damage per hit' possible from your build).

i encourage players to do that math though--i think it's good to be familiar with what goes on underneath the hood when looking at itemization.


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Aezoc

Senior Member

11-27-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by ricklessabandon View Post
last whisper does decrease the 'value' of flat penetration, though infinity edge and phantom dancer should have no effect on calculations done for comparison.
in the case of last whisper, the cross-over point for the two rune sets wouldn't be ~50 armor--it would be a tighter gap than that.

if you're going to assume that you're always buying a last whisper though, you're better off with crit chance runes instead of crit damage (assuming you want the highest 'average damage per hit' possible from your build).

i encourage players to do that math though--i think it's good to be familiar with what goes on underneath the hood when looking at itemization.
Are there any plans to adjust the numbers on the runes so that the "bad" ones are more competitive? It seems like the logical next step after adjusting the masteries to be more closely gold equivalent, but I haven't heard anything about this being in the pipeline. Granted, some runes are merely niche (my AS marks don't see a lot of use, for example, but they're really good for the few champions that use them), but others like the crit damage runes are flat-out bad except in ridiculously specific circumstances (specific champion AND specific team comp AND specific item build).


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genericname885

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Senior Member

11-27-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by ricklessabandon View Post
last whisper does decrease the 'value' of flat penetration, though infinity edge and phantom dancer should have no effect on calculations done for comparison.
in the case of last whisper, the cross-over point for the two rune sets wouldn't be ~50 armor--it would be a tighter gap than that.

if you're going to assume that you're always buying a last whisper though, you're better off with crit chance runes instead of crit damage (assuming you want the highest 'average damage per hit' possible from your build).

i encourage players to do that math though--i think it's good to be familiar with what goes on underneath the hood when looking at itemization.
I just threw in the Phantom Dancer because with 29% crit, you're going to get next to no benefit from crit damage runes. I actually sometimes run IE, 2x PD and green pot on Tristana if I know my team is solid enough to protect me (which is something like 95% crit chance). Anyway, Infinity Edge devalues crit damage runes in comparison to flat arp. I also forget to include the 10% crit damage from masteries, which would likely bump the armor tipping point to about 100 (with 100% crit and a Last Whisper).

However I would say Last Whisper is core on most AD carries (after IE and zeal or PD), particularly the ones that are looking to benefit from crit damage runes. While I would say that flat arp runes are better than crit damage, I also have to say that if you're going for a pure late game build, then crit damage does give you slightly higher damage. Of course, crit chance would likely be better than damage unless you know you can be crazy enough to get away with not building any defensive items (hence being able to grab IE, BT, 2x PD and LW).

Actually the reason I prefer flat AD quints to arp is due to Last Whisper, it's simply a needed item to deal effective damage to bruisers/any team with Soraka (or Taric or Sona with an Aegis).

Might I mention I like not wanting to run crit damage runes for maximum damage? dealing up to 3x damage with crits would be some huge RNG in mid/late game :/.


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Narnak

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Senior Member

11-27-2011

It's possible that with certain builds, crit damage runes would give you the maximum DPS increase in the very late game when you have 5-6 items. But many games don't go that long, and you would be gimping yourself up until that point since you would only get the value of that crit damage with a lot of crit chance and attack damage and for that you'll need a few items. I mean you can get lucky with that 4% crit from masteries, but other runes will simply be more consistently good.


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IS11d6327cb35cafc124891

Senior Member

11-27-2011

me sad they nerf crit dmg rune page to 55% from 50% then 46% from 50%


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ZeroSlash

Senior Member

11-27-2011

I think it's fine no papers but not exactly true. I have only CritDmg Quintz/Marks, but thats cause I obviously grab the mastery. On normal ad carries might not be so awesome. However, with someone like Tryndamere that's a whole different story. In fact if crit dmg was more, I wouldnt even get the IE. Example, you know Ashe's passive, it's ****. But on Tryndamere and on Gangplank Ive noticed it's significantly better to have crit dmg Runes.You do need a higher crit chance though. Also, I think IE might make it worth on some champs if you grab some black cleaver or last whisper. Also what's stopping you from grabbing a Yomuu's? 20armor penetration as much as youd get from runes, sure some might see it as a waste of an item but it gives cooldown reduction and a very amusing active, plus some crit. IE, PD, Boots, Yomuu's, BT, and Idk Atmas?

Just IE, PD, and Yomuu's in some champs is enough.

Some people would rather get another phantom dancer before Yomuu's though.

On Another cloak and dagger suck, not to mention Eleisa's Miracle. Any stats how often those items are bought?


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Stexe

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Adjudicator

11-27-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by DreamCuri View Post
Crit damage runes need buffs.

That's my opinion.
Pretty sure that isn't just your opinion. That is fact.


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grandim

Senior Member

11-27-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aezoc View Post
Are there any plans to adjust the numbers on the runes so that the "bad" ones are more competitive? It seems like the logical next step after adjusting the masteries to be more closely gold equivalent, but I haven't heard anything about this being in the pipeline. Granted, some runes are merely niche (my AS marks don't see a lot of use, for example, but they're really good for the few champions that use them), but others like the crit damage runes are flat-out bad except in ridiculously specific circumstances (specific champion AND specific team comp AND specific item build).
You were not around back when Shaco could kill you in a second at level 1? Crit damage runes are not fun when they are good.


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Aezoc

Senior Member

11-27-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by grandim View Post
You were not around back when Shaco could kill you in a second at level 1? Crit damage runes are not fun when they are good.
I was around for pre-nerf Shaco. He's been hit plenty since then, and regardless, specific champions' balance issues need to be addressed with champion tweaks. The solution isn't to have runes that are sub-par newbie traps.


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Thané

Senior Member

11-27-2011

this page used to be awesome with the old tryndamere. first rune page i bought because it was so epic. something like 315% crit damage with everything stacked i think.