Full crit damage rune-page - opinions?

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Cenerae

Senior Member

11-27-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by ricklessabandon View Post
crit chance isn't really the stat that matters here, it's your target's armor value.
it's better to look at it like this:

on a non-crit:
armor penetration marks + quints give up to a 25% increase in damage.
crit damage marks + quints give a 0% increase in damage.

on a crit:
armor penetration marks + quints give up to a 25% increase in damage.
crit damage marks + quints give a ~17% increase in damage.

even with 100% crit chance, it's possible that the crit damage runes are inferior to the armor penetration runes.
to find out the point at which (on a crit) armor penetration runes aren't superior, you have to find out how much armor past what you can penetrate would be enough to sufficiently devalue the penetration runes. i believe this point is ~50 armor.

so, in the case that you have only sunder, crit damage marks + quints are better than armor penetration marks + quints on a crit when your target has over 80 armor. it's not really an issue of reaching a certain amount of crit chance.

it's a minor point though--the practical thing to take away from that is regardless of your crit chance, crit damage runes will only be better than armor penetration for cases in which your attacks are being significantly mitigated. and even then, only on the attacks that crit. that's typically not the time to celebrate rune effectiveness, hence crit damage runes are always* bad.

that's already been covered though, clearly. i just wanted to mention that crit chance is largely irrelevant.


*the one exception is when a target's armor is reduced to zero for you (which would make armor penetration runes worthless). this can happen if your teammates pick up items like black cleaver or stark's fervor, or have skills like rammus's taunt, nasus's spirit fire, or taric's shatter.
Armor pen runes are a flat value, not a % reduction. So the damage increase early on is way more than a 25% increase, whereas late game it's probably going to be minor unless you have things such as a black cleaver.

Crit chance is relevant because crit damage is only useful on a crit. While yes, it may be that armor pen runes are still going to provide bigger crits, that depends on the target and your items.


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ricklessabandon

qa analyst

11-27-2011
2 of 6 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cenerae View Post
Armor pen runes are a flat value, not a % reduction. So the damage increase early on is way more than a 25% increase
you misunderstand. they are a flat value which gives a % increase in damage.
the numbers i listed are correct.


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ChaosBloodterfly

Senior Member

11-27-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cenerae View Post
Armor pen runes are a flat value, not a % reduction. So the damage increase early on is way more than a 25% increase, whereas late game it's probably going to be minor unless you have things such as a black cleaver.

Crit chance is relevant because crit damage is only useful on a crit. While yes, it may be that armor pen runes are still going to provide bigger crits, that depends on the target and your items.
The Flat value is a (changing) % of the targets armor. He's saying at 25 armor, ArP runes provide ~25% increase in damage. And you're never going to get more than a 25% increase with 25 ArP


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iP1ayJarvan

Senior Member

11-27-2011

there are no arpen for seals and glyphs though, i believe crit damage may be good as fillers if you don't need anything else.


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Cenerae

Senior Member

11-27-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by ricklessabandon View Post
you misunderstand. they are a flat value which gives a % increase in damage.
the numbers i listed are correct.
I guess I misunderstood the math. Bleh. (I was thinking to myself 'wait, 25 armor + 25 armor pen = 100% damage increase.' Derp.)


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Duelpower

Senior Member

11-27-2011

So why do crit damage runes exist in the first place? If the circumstances for them to be superior over arpen are so rare it almost never happens then they need buffed or removed.


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3v3ryone

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Senior Member

11-27-2011

crit dmg runes are good only late game and not on everyone.

armor pen + flat AD are much better early-mid game, because it's easier to win your lane and farm.


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kokxx

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Recruiter

11-27-2011

Stacking crit Damage runes has been "in" on shaco trynda and gangplank before season 1. Then someone found out that its the worst idea ever :P


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genericname885

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Senior Member

11-27-2011

Does anyone have a link to the theorycraft done on it? Assuming a build of IE, PD and LW, I would have thought the Last Whisper would devalue your flat arp, while the IE and PD boosts the crit damage runes.


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Cenerae

Senior Member

11-27-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by genericname885 View Post
Does anyone have a link to the theorycraft done on it? Assuming a build of IE, PD and LW, I would have thought the Last Whisper would devalue your flat arp, while the IE and PD boosts the crit damage runes.
http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=70173

Point to take note of: This was done before armor pen runes were nerfed, so crit damage is slightly better than shown there.


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