Volibear Patch Preview: Gameplay Changes

First Riot Post
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k2water

Senior Member

11-25-2011

this is retarded, make laning more passive yet earlier you nurfed heals to make it more agressive... then nurf hp pots and buff junglers, why would this be a good idea

Edit: looks like the jungler will outlevel mid, with any skill....


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SuzakuII

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Senior Member

11-25-2011

This has gotta be the worst thing riot has done, nothing else really compared to how much they are screwing up this game

Edit: Lower minion damage makes a stronger difference between the average laner, poor laner, and god like laner. So the point becomes let the stronger lane picks dominate their lane while the carry shall sit back like a little pansy because they got dominated by someone like say.... akali or something.

Lower spawn time on jungle means.... lets sit in jungle and farm, because even now, ganking pays off a bit if it is a success, if not, it is till a huge problem. So making jungle easier... sure.. imma gonna just jungle with shoe now because it is possible and ganks will be more efficient and farming through the jungle will be faster since i move faster!


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BlacksheepCHB

Junior Member

11-25-2011

Soon riot will completely wipe out early laning phase and just begin to throw random terribad noobs into one giant gay cluster**** of a game


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LysolCleaner

Senior Member

11-25-2011

way to dumb down the game even further Riot...


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CrackPony

Junior Member

11-25-2011

I Dont Like Change -___-


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Sicariuss x3

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Senior Member

11-25-2011

swtor 20 days **** this gayness


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Naiwi

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Member

11-25-2011

Dear god, time to play more sivir! O:

Also, Volibear looks really cool, i thought he'd be on all fours 24/7 like a Golden compass ripoff, but now that i saw him, he looks beast! (no pun intended)

Also, what's with all the tanky dps lately? o.O


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k2water

Senior Member

11-25-2011

well looks like im just going to jungle teemo, annie, karthus, soraka, sona, viegar, singed, garen, wait whoever i want to, and i can play all my mages as AD carries trololololol


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Jace Darkast

Member

11-25-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xhieron View Post
Let's encourage aggression by ...

Wait a second. You're trying to get people to be more aggressive by punishing their sustainability? I'm not sure I see this. If my health potions won't actually heal me meaningfully anymore, I'm not going to decide to take more risks. I'm going to blue pill more often and look for an alternative to potions. I'm going to hug my tower more because I know getting poked is something I can't recover from, and I'd rather be pushed out of lane than killed. I'll just buy Health Regen, Life steal, or mitigation stats instead. Or better yet, I'll play more champs that have abilities that give me those things.

The minion damage change is a good one; nothing is more demoralizing than being killed because the enemy minion line is in a better position to protect their champ than yours is. That said, if you want to make the game more aggressive, you have to make the consequences of success more rewarding and the consequences of failure less punishing. The change to death timers several patches ago was a start, but even after that change, I still feel like teleport is mandatory for one of the champs in a two man lane, because a successful gank at any time after level one or two will mean that the turret falls.

I guess I say that to say I just frankly disagree with your vision for the game. Honestly, I'm sick and tired of having esports waved in my face like a giant *****. It's offensive, and I think these changes are more about marketing and less about the overall health of the game. You want the game to be more entertaining for people who are watching, but at the same time I think you're making the game progressively more frustrating for people actually playing.

When Vlad was nerfed, there was a great deal of in my opinion extremely meaningful discussion about player decision-making in gameplay, and I appreciated that conversation for it even though I think the nerf was a slap in the face to Vlad players (and said as much at the time). Well what happened to that? I thought the company line was that players should have more and better choices? Making potions less useful is removing a choice. Maybe this is a totally insignificant change, but since we're still not actually testing, I have to assume the worst and argue accordingly.

If, however, my worst fears fail to materialize, I think we're still looking at a symptom of a more systemic problem. You're trying to twist players' arms to make the game more aggressive, yet you've done nothing significant to actually alter the mechanics of the game to encourage aggression. Last hitting is still the name of the game--guaranteed creep score is always a better option than a risk at a kill, especially since the consequences if that risk fails to materialize are pretty dire. That is to say, if you want to actually fundamentally change the way players in the lane behave, you have to actually change the fundamentals of laning.

That means minions need to matter less, death needs to matter less, and killing other players needs to matter more. Even though I feel like Dominion is a catastrophic failure on the whole, there are some definite things to learn from it, and if your goal is to make champion play on SR more like that, you have to carry some of those things over. Minions need to be less important; if I forego killing minions to harass and try to get a kill instead, I shouldn't be completely wrecked if it doesn't work out. Similarly, if I take a chance and die, I shouldn't come back to my lane to find myself down two levels and completely zoned out for the rest of the phase.

The counter-argument is, "Well that's the cost of the risk; you could have won and then it would be the other guy in that situation," right? Right! So play passively instead. I realize this change is aimed at moving the line between "maybe a kill" and "guaranteed kill (or at least out of lane)" from where it currently is, but as long as the base mechanics remain unaltered, the incentives remain where they are. They shift around a little--depending on the numbers, I'll probably leave base with fewer potions from now on--but my laning behavior isn't going to change at all. If anything, I'll be even more passive, because now I'm not packing any potions, and I don't have a Flash anymore.
Totally, true. How are you gonna play more aggressive with flash nerf, health pots nerf and lane sustain nerf? with the recent jungle buffs, players in lane will play even more passive if they know the jungler has access to more buffs and faster leveling. Solution: Nerf minion gold, buff champion kills.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SexyGamer View Post
I totally agree. Riot's latest actions have been really stupid and are pointing this game in the worst direction. Less passivity? more like "We're nerfing your early game ability to sustain yourself in-lane" .Alot of these changes are very drastic and several of them are ruining this game. They're ruining the diversity and choices of gameplay in LoL by severely nerfing or getting rid of aspects that make this game more viable to intuitive, different, and new forms of gameplay. IMO, these changes are gradually turning LoL into a right-click UNFUN and REPETITIVE game. The incoming dodge removal made me facepalm because it was a different aspect of this game and was in no manner, "OP" because it seriously is an unreliable game mechanic but is beneficial for all players. It should not be removed at all. The incoming changes to jungle are ridiculous because 1. theres a reason why junglers are important: they have access to the blue and red buffs which greatly improve their ability to help the lanes. A nerf to the buffs will cause a lower success rate of ganks so a jungler's ability to help a lane out becomes much harder. I have fears about the buffs to the jungle because jungle creeps give ALOT of exp so wouldn't faster respawn times mean that the jungler would have the fastest lvling? Meaning that ganks can happen VERY early on and players will become even more passive. Regarding to the nerf on health pots, its a terrible idea. Do you realize that these are vital to early game sustainability? It gives us the ability to survive ganks and sustain ourselves against champs that , WITHOUT US HAVING HEALTH POTS, would dominate us regardless. These changes have been mostly in favor of the dominating champs. Say goodbye to diversity in gameplay and champion picks because people can just auto-click that really good champ that will dominate the farming phase.

And heres probably my pet peeves: Why does Riot keep catering to the newer players and low level gameplay? Isn't it better to just to limit these changes to LOW LEVEL gameplay? This seems like a narrow-minded approach and its greatly affecting high lvl gameplay (i'm talking about ranked matches and lvl 20s and up in general).

EDIT: These changes are pushing towards more players vs. npc gameplay rather than pvp. (a.k,a, right-click gameplay) which is degenerating this game.
Entirely true. I facepalmed when I read dodge was being removed as well. What's done it's done, and Riot wont make dodge come back, but seriously this game is turning into a right-click spam fest and I honestly don't like it. If you guys nerf lane sustain, champions that don't rely on pots like nidalee will dominate lane even MORE. Now about minion dmg nerf... more right-click spam!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartlis View Post
This game's popularity is growing at a massive rate, why all of the sudden is there an "accesibility problem"? This game has a reputation as it is (unfairly imho) as the casual moba already, if there is an "accesability problem" it's with your pricing system, not game complexty. Warcraft took what made it popular and simplified(aka dumbed down) it for what it thought casual types would want, if you want to know how that turned out, just ask one of the millions of people that left the game.
This. Exactly this. Why veterans and experienced players quitted wow, because it turned slowly into a baddie-noobie game with 0 challenge. Man I don't mind things getting explained and simplified...but this is too much.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zileas View Post
I think that its a bunch of large changes that are hard to understand, where the changes are removing something and replacing them with something else. People usually have a neutral reaction or a negative one, so the post is net negative.

We've had this happen with the support changes also -- which ultimately were accepted by the community once they played them. We will measure our success with this patch based on how you guys feel about it after its been out a week.
There's something I don't understand. Since when were we satisfied with support changes? You guys were like "You don't like changes? deal with it", you guys are mistaking our "Well there's nothing we can do" resolution with true satisfaction.

Actually, the last buffs/nerfs patches have been ridiculous. I remember it clearly: You guys buffed Sion stats and a few months later you nerfed him; maybe he was fine before the buff?? Same happened to Morgana, applied huge amount of buffs on her and a few weeks later "uh, she's out of control, lets nerf her", You guys fail at balance. I'm not saying I'd do it properly either, but you guys get paid, you make tests and evaluations before taking decisions...and you STILL fail.

A game becomes more exciting depending on the amount of elements it contains; the more elements, the more challenge, fun and skill required; makes you feel like a boss everytime you achieve something (aka satisfaction)...nerfing pots means not picking pots anymore...removing dodge means, losing an interesting element of the game...

But go ahead, do your *balance* changes. I honestly never thought I'd say this, but... can't wait for Dota2.


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Valestein

Senior Member

11-25-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zileas View Post
Hey Guys,
On the jungle changes, they have been tested extensively by pro players internally and externally. We used the public testing environments a lot for this, and have been testing them in the internal balance team for a very long time
Because everyone can play at 'pro' player standards right? Now you guys are basically catering to casuals and the pros, what about the the in betweens?