@RIOT 5-0 teams range in ELO

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1nOnlySmashem

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11-23-2011

Why in the world does a team go 5-0 and their elo (I just checked the ladder for these numbers) are so different. One team 5-0 1278, another team is 5-0 1207. There is even a 6-0 team with a lower elo of 1200.

How does this make any sense? Give more IP for beating teams higher than you and less for beating lower ones. Lose more vs lower elo and win less elo vs lower teams. After my team went 5-0 we were at 1178...

Can anyone explain to me how the elo is done please so I, and all others wondering this same thing, can have a little better understanding.


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m0gX

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11-23-2011

depending on the teams you beat your ELO will be different. because you dont all play the same team, you will all have different ELO even after all winning 5 games and loosing none.


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1nOnlySmashem

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11-23-2011

Yeah, and that's how it should be. My problem is how much the difference is almost a 100 elo difference. Also it said they were matching use with higher elo that our team and we would win +36 elo per match but the first one we lost after going 8-0 was -60 elo....If your are facing higher teams shouldn't you lose less?!


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m0gX

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11-23-2011

well obviously at the far ends of the spectrum, there will be teams that played all bad teams and won, and so have lower ELO, and teams that won against 5 better teams, and so have higher ELO. either way, after your placement, if you should still be better, you will keep going up. It just means it will take a few more games for the team that played the worse teams.

You gain and loose more ELO the fewer games you have played to adjsut your ELO to its proper position more quickly. so first few games right after placement, I hear will have greater loss's and gains. However, since the teams you play may be better or worse than you to different degrees, you could play a really good team and win 36, but you could lose to a team that had an even greater difference in skill level than you, except they are worse than your team, and you will lose more ELO.

Trust me and Riot, the math works. Though it might seem weird at times, I will guarentee you that at least 99% of the time, the ELO changes and math happens for a reason. I only leave out the 1% in case there are magical situations that screw stuff up, however I am doubtful those situations even exist.

Trust the system.


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1nOnlySmashem

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11-23-2011

You are just stating the obvious and that doesn't help but thanks anyway.


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m0gX

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11-23-2011

well you likely were NOT facing a team that was a lot better than you when you lost 60, or if you were facing a better team, the loss would have been even greater if they were worse.

so if that doesn't answer your question... what is your question lol? cause I thought it was how does ELO work and why is there this difference between teams with same number of wins, or the difference between amount of ELO change for games.


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1nOnlySmashem

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11-23-2011

It is that but you are just giving what it SHOULD be like. Not what it is. we were 8-0 why would we face people below us?

Secondly in solo/duo you can be last elo on the team all the time and always earn the same +12 or +13. if your theory would be correct you should gain more from having all the other people higher elo than you.


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m0gX

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11-23-2011

look at it this way: if you are facing someone better than you, then they are facing someone worse than them.

So obviously at times, you must play people outside of your skill level, better and worse.

Now if you are going to say "well we were 8-0, why would it try matching us with someone worse before we lose one?", the reason is because obviously the matchmaking should try to match you with better teams, but one team always has to be better than the other, and you are not the be all and end all of the matchmaking system, meaning it placed you where it could at the time, it isn't perfect or catering to you for the perfect matchup. everyone you played who is "better" than you likely also had gone 6-0, or 7-0 or something similar to be that high in ELO after so few games.

and you are correct, you SHOULD gain higher ELO for playing with more skilled people, because they are more skilled than you. if both teams have all equal level players, except for you, and you are lower, you should get more ELO regardless of the outcome (as in you should get more for a win and lose less for a loss).

The reason for the above paragraph: imagine that you can have a tie game (so almost a system where there is more than just win and lose, but a spectrum in between where ELO would be given accordingly). lets say you tie someone (in a 1v1 situation) of the same skill level, then obviously you should not change ELO. similarly, if you play a team where you are all the same skill level, and there is a tie, there should be no change. but, lets say the situation is the same as the above paragraph; everyone on both teams is the same ELO except you. you are lower. if there is a tie in this situation, then you kept up with the higher level play (and didn't lose it for your team) meaning your true skill level is higher than your ELO says, so your ELO would go up. IF that game was perfect representation of your skill level, then you would be equal ELO to the people you played with if you kept up (That is the main principle behind this).

so basically tldr: obviously you need to face people worse than you, and yes, you SHOULD gain more elo playing with higher level players.

EDIT: actually, im not sure I addressed the second part correctly: what exactly did you mean by the higher elo playing with better players? which part of "my theory" are you referring to specifically?


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ArchAgent

Senior Member

11-26-2011

I think the intent of the OP has not been addressed. Although I do understand the entire "you played a better team means you get more elo" argument, it does not really answer the fact that on day ONE a team with a 5-0 record had roughly 1270 elo and another team with 5-0 had roughy 1210 elo. Considering at the time most every team should had been the same elo (due to hard reset) how could the elo system award an "elo bonus" (if you will) for beating a harder team? There was/is no hard team!


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Tavald

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11-26-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1nOnlySmashem View Post
Why in the world does a team go 5-0 and their elo (I just checked the ladder for these numbers) are so different. One team 5-0 1278, another team is 5-0 1207. There is even a 6-0 team with a lower elo of 1200.

How does this make any sense? Give more IP for beating teams higher than you and less for beating lower ones. Lose more vs lower elo and win less elo vs lower teams. After my team went 5-0 we were at 1178...

Can anyone explain to me how the elo is done please so I, and all others wondering this same thing, can have a little better understanding.
Your team won 5 and lost 0.
You lose elo and go from 1200 to 1178.
Don't know how this happen.
Report as a bug?
Even if your team is way better than the other, wining should not give you negative points.