I solemnly swear to keep queue dodging.

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GaugeForever

Senior Member

06-29-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shinnyshin View Post
How ridiculously unfun. Isn't a big part of the game just playing with the cards you're dealt? Making the best of situations?

Bad luck isn't one-sided. If everyone would just suck it up and play the game, things would work out far better for all parties.
Cards are static. Also other players are playing with good cards all the time, not just some of the time.

I'll relax for 6 mins while the other player I dodged makes someone else rage.


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YO FAT MAMA

Senior Member

06-29-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uccisore View Post
Are queue dodgers really all this dumb? I keep on seeing you guys act as if bad team comps can only happen to YOU, and never the opponent, and every time, it surprises me. If you would just think for 2 seconds, you'd realize that without dodging, the bad combos would happen on the other side just as much as yours, and when they happened on both sides, you'd actually win some of those games.
Are you really this dumb? I'm not sure you have a firm understanding of logic buddy. If you are a person that queue dodges every bad team comp, then guess what, you have %100 chance of never being on a team with a bad comp. Obviously bad team comp can happen to an opponent or not, but that's not the point and that's also out of your control. If you and me have equal skill, and i dodge every bad team and you never dodge one in your life, i am going to win a LOT more games than you, simple as that. Which to some people (people that dodge) means waste a lot less time.

Your statement in no way addresses the actual reason that people dodge, which is to avoid bad team comps themselves and not waste a bunch of time in unfair matches. You basically just say "Well since the enemies might have a bad team, i might as well not dodge ever so i can give them the same chance of going against a bad team." This does not convince me to want to stop dodging, nor do I understand why it has convinced you to do so.


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Dracks

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Recruiter

06-29-2010

It actually depends on the player...

if you know that the Eve Player is good then you probably won't dodge

If Graz see's this post then maybe he can tell you how many people dodge him?


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selenvar

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Senior Member

06-29-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by topboy View Post
My eve with revive say hi

Now show me your profile so i know i'm not posting on a thread with player that suck harder than dry ice.

Get it? rofl

you only have 200 wins, and i can't show you my profile games down.

Feels bad man.


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Baka Sesshou

Senior Member

06-29-2010

Solo queue is crazy anyway, regardless of team setup.

That pro looking guy with the perfect runes, spells and miraculously complimenting the team might end up doing something of the following:
Ragequit, go afk, play drunk, feed on purpose, ping the minimap continuously, refuse to be flexible with lanes, actually just honestly play bad, etc.

You also do not see the other team, your 5 man melee setup might actually win because of whatever, cause the enemy team might just be as, if not more, ****ed than yours, either on a team setup scale, or skill, or personality.
I mean, the enemies Jax, with 15 kills in the first 5 minutes might have a weak spot along the lines of "You hold that lamp post very close to you because it reminds you of your fathers peenis, ja?" and quit, crying and slashing his wrist.

On the other hand, that Trynd with clarity might have the mastery and gives your team a mana boost during a push, since he is immortal anyway, and the mana might net him a heal or a bubble or whatever to GTFO after the ult.

unlikely situations? There are trolls WANTING you to dodge?

Of course, but you can never be absolutely sure how a match will unfold when soloqueuing, fair approximations, yes, but knowing perfectly? No.

And on another end of the story.
I don't dodge unless there is a reallife even that requires my attention, queue dodgers are never missed by me, they c an dodge and get penalized all day.
Doesn't matter to me in ANY way.

/personalopinion


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Shinnyshin

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Senior Member

06-29-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by GaugeForever View Post
Cards are static. Also other players are playing with good cards all the time, not just some of the time.

I'll relax for 6 mins while the other player I dodged makes someone else rage.
I'm afraid I don't follow your first point. Card draws are variable and based on luck--that's why they're interesting.

And no players are "playing with good cards all the time". EVERY SINGLE PERSON in random queue risks having a terrible teammate or an afker. Every time I play Malzahar, I risk having a laning opponent with Cleanse. Every time I play with my really good arranged team friends, I risk one of them (or myself) having a bad day, or I risk facing an enemy who hard counters me. Or someone who's just really really good.

The game is full of immeasurable variables. Learning to deal with them is just a part of the game and makes things much more interesting. And makes you better as a player.

For example, my housemate is kind of terrible. Well, he's better now. But he'd never played videogames in his life and I completely lost me 2:1 Win/loss because he fed with 1/10 K/D ratios. So what? I lost a game or two or twenty and got IP points a bit slower. But I had fun, I learned a LOT, he learned a LOT, and the other team sometimes had similarly sucky players. Here, I even rigged the deck against myself by arranging with a terrible player, but even then there was plenty of variety and randomness. And learning how to deal with those situations made me a far better player in the long run. I can now, for example, protect a feeder in my lane extremely well. And it's a useful, useful skill.


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Cywyllog

Member

06-29-2010

You know, you could even it out by playing the ranged in the all melee teams, or whatever other role would be best to support them and help achieve victory. I've seen all tank teams rape, or all stealth teams, even all ranged--yes group makeup is important in a lot of cases but not something you can never work around.


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Socialist Ryan

Senior Member

06-29-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rainyki View Post
See. This is why evelyn with revive and heal is an AWESOME way to get other people to dodge so that way they get the que time and you don't. >
bad idea. any GOOD q dodger will see that and KNOW that you are trying to force a dodge and any GOOD q dodger will wait til the last second to dodge (after the clock hits 0)


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Uccisore

Senior Member

06-29-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by YO FAT MAMA View Post
Are you really this dumb? I'm not sure you have a firm understanding of logic buddy. If you are a person that queue dodges every bad team comp, then guess what, you have %100 chance of never being on a team with a bad comp. Obviously bad team comp can happen to an opponent or not, but that's not the point and that's also out of your control. If you and me have equal skill, and i dodge every bad team and you never dodge one in your life, i am going to win a LOT more games than you, simple as that.
Which is part of the reason it's penalized- because it's cheating, as you more or less just admitted. Unless you don't think "Something done against the rules to gain a competitive advantage" isn't a good definition.


Quote:
"Well since the enemies might have a bad team, i might as well not dodge ever so i can give them the same chance of going against a bad team." This does not convince me to want to stop dodging, nor do I understand why it has convinced you to do so.
The point isn't to convince you there's no advantage in queue-dodging. I can't do that, because there IS one. That's what makes it cheating. To understand what I'm saying, you need to distinguish between "Me cheating right now" and "Cheating as a practice everybody should do." People are trying to leap from "Sometimes this happens to me" to "Queue dodging shouldn't be penalized." That makes no sense because, if nobody could ever queue dodge, the odds would even out since horrible match ups would happen to the opponent as much as you.

Imagine we were talking about hide and seek. Suppose I explained to you that sometimes I'm put up against really good people, so I peek when I'm counting to make them easier to find. My reasoning is clear- I'm peeking to make them easier to find. Clear advantage, perfectly logical (and cheating). But suppose I explained that, and then concluded "Therefore, peeking during hide and seek shouldn't be penalized". See how that doesn't make sense? You can't advocate everybody breaking the rules, on the grounds that it gives YOU a competitive advantage to do so, because it's only an advantage if some people break the rules and some people don't....and now we're getting to the Categorical Imperative, and it's far too late at night here for Kant.


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Shinnyshin

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Senior Member

06-29-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uccisore View Post
Which is part of the reason it's penalized- because it's cheating, as you more or less just admitted. Unless you don't think "Something done against the rules to gain a competitive advantage" isn't a good definition.




The point isn't to convince you there's no advantage in queue-dodging. I can't do that, because there IS one. That's what makes it cheating. To understand what I'm saying, you need to distinguish between "Me cheating right now" and "Cheating as a practice everybody should do." People are trying to leap from "Sometimes this happens to me" to "Queue dodging shouldn't be penalized." That makes no sense because, if nobody could ever queue dodge, the odds would even out since horrible match ups would happen to the opponent as much as you.

Imagine we were talking about hide and seek. Suppose I explained to you that sometimes I'm put up against really good people, so I peek when I'm counting to make them easier to find. My reasoning is clear- I'm peeking to make them easier to find. Clear advantage, perfectly logical (and cheating). But suppose I explained that, and then concluded "Therefore, peeking during hide and seek shouldn't be penalized". See how that doesn't make sense? You can't advocate everybody breaking the rules, on the grounds that it gives YOU a competitive advantage to do so, because whether everybody breaks them or nobody breaks them, there's no net advantage. It's only an advantage if some people break the rules and some people don't....and now we're getting to the Categorical Imperative, and it's far too late at night here for Kant.
Strangely enough, I thought Veil of Ignorance when I read about queue dodging and fairness/self-advantage.

Let's say 3% of players queue dodge and 97% don't. If you play a game, you have no idea which category you'll be put in--the dodger or the non-dodger, though you have a sense of the odds. With that in mind, would you consider queue dodging beneficial to both you and the majority?

Just goes to show Rawls is a far more fun read.


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