[Guide] Veigar, The Tiny Master of HADOKEN!

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Rokudan

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The Council

10-02-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paxad View Post
Just fyi, Deathfire's Grasp stacks. Unbelievably broken too.
Yea, too bad it's already being planned on being hotfixed, wasn't intentional, and isn't even that good considering veigar tears most people to half life already anyways. That abuse is better left to low-damage spammy spells, not to Veigar.


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Crazy Demon

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Senior Member

10-02-2009

Well, I must say, you post a convincing argument; impressive since I'm one of those people who absolutely swears my soulstealer, even before the most recent buff with assist. I also love using chalice as by first mana item, but I haven't tried Tears enough to say its worst.

I'll try out your build after they fix the launcher problem.


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Master0Puppets

Banned

10-02-2009

Horribleh idea never again man!11!!!1


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Rokudan

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The Council

10-02-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Master0Puppets View Post
Horribleh idea never again man!11!!!1

f u hater


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Master0Puppets

Banned

10-02-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roku View Post
f u hater
Fudge u hater of a hater


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Ithryn

Senior Member

10-02-2009

Wonderful guide. I'm a pretty bad veigar, gave this a try, and wham, instant skillz. Thanks for the help.


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Crazy Demon

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Senior Member

10-03-2009

Well, I played it a couple of times last night and this morning; its a pretty solid build. You got a good amount of HP, a great amount of mana, and a decent amount of AP throughout the entire game. I would say both are nice safe builds. On the otherhand, I felt myself completely bored- not just at the beginning but throughout the entire game. I always feel that Veigar is to be played as the fragile caster who skirts along the sides and slams for massive amounts- like Zeus from Dota. Having said that, I rather prefer my a AP heavy build.

Also, I dislike getting more than one level of Veigar's Q ability at the beginning. Dark Matter hits for massive amounts throughout the entire game. I prefer going
1) Q
2) Stun
3) Dark Matter
4) Dark Matter
5) Dark Matter
6) Ulti
7) Dark Matter
8) Dark Matter

I can still two-three shot most heroes far easier due to the massive range and power of darkmatter.


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Rokudan

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The Council

10-03-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy Demon View Post
Well, I played it a couple of times last night and this morning; its a pretty solid build. You got a good amount of HP, a great amount of mana, and a decent amount of AP throughout the entire game. I would say both are nice safe builds. On the otherhand, I felt myself completely bored- not just at the beginning but throughout the entire game. I always feel that Veigar is to be played as the fragile caster who skirts along the sides and slams for massive amounts- like Zeus from Dota. Having said that, I rather prefer my a AP heavy build.

Also, I dislike getting more than one level of Veigar's Q ability at the beginning. Dark Matter hits for massive amounts throughout the entire game. I prefer going
1) Q
2) Stun
3) Dark Matter
4) Dark Matter
5) Dark Matter
6) Ulti
7) Dark Matter
8) Dark Matter

I can still two-three shot most heroes far easier due to the massive range and power of darkmatter.
Alright, an argument that I've been against many times and address in the guide but I guess I can try and address further in depth. First, you're wanting to slam for massive amounts, if you're not doing that with my build then you're doing something wrong. What exactly is your AP build and how does it differ from mine? An oom Veigar or a dead Veigar does no damage, and with my build I have around 600 AP at the 30 min mark, so I don't see how you plan on doing that. You may accomplish 100 more AP than my build but the cost is so great that yea you might combo one person but chances are you can't combo 2-4 people in succession.

Secondly, Dark Matter vs Baleful. You say that Dark Matter has "massive range". Look at my screenshot, that's the range difference between baleful and dark matter. I did this by first checking the range indicator on baleful (Standing far away from a ranged neutral, casting it on them and holding position as soon as it cast) The indicator is a tad short. I transpose that difference onto a max range dark matter and you have the screenshot. Sure there is a slight difference, but is it REALLY massive? For how easy it is to dodge and the fact that baleful can't be dodged, I think not.

Continuing Dark Matter vs Baleful, you said that dark matter has massive power? Well, lets look at vs one champion. In the cooldown of ONE Dark matter (Since we're talking early game I'll assume 100 AP for ease) Dark Matter will do 460(times the number of champions hit, including 0) Magic Damage at the cost of 150 mana. In those same 13 seconds you could cast 3 balefuls which would hit for (260+60) = 320. 320*3 = 960 damage at the cost of 225 mana. So you use a little more mana (shouldn't be a problem with tear anyways) and unless you're hitting 3 champions EVERY CAST, you do more damage.

Lastly, I'm sure you want to use the "Event Horizon makes Dark Matter not miss!" argument. Alright, well since it's early game Event Horizon doesn't stun long enough to cast first yet, so range difference is still the same as in the screenshot. Event horizon does no damage, but if used as a combo brings a longer cooldown into play. This cooldown is a whopping 24 seconds and costs another 90 mana. So in the end ONE combo will do(at it's MASSIVE range) a MASSIVE 460*(number of champions) damage for 240 mana cost. However, since the cooldown is twice as long as the previous statement, baleful strike can do 1920 damage at the cost of 450 mana. You would have to hit ALL five champions EVERY cast to out damage Baleful. Double the mana but quadruple the single target damage.

Dark matter is not stronger early. It just isn't. It has a better ap ratio and can hit more targets mid-late game during team fights so it is better there. Add in the benefits of last hitting and AP gain....I'd say at least go and try it out more. Maybe you weren't using Baleful as effectively as possible. Anyways, good luck.


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Master0Puppets

Banned

10-03-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roku View Post
Alright, an argument that I've been against many times and address in the guide but I guess I can try and address further in depth. First, you're wanting to slam for massive amounts, if you're not doing that with my build then you're doing something wrong. What exactly is your AP build and how does it differ from mine? An oom Veigar or a dead Veigar does no damage, and with my build I have around 600 AP at the 30 min mark, so I don't see how you plan on doing that. You may accomplish 100 more AP than my build but the cost is so great that yea you might combo one person but chances are you can't combo 2-4 people in succession.

Secondly, Dark Matter vs Baleful. You say that Dark Matter has "massive range". Look at my screenshot, that's the range difference between baleful and dark matter. I did this by first checking the range indicator on baleful (Standing far away from a ranged neutral, casting it on them and holding position as soon as it cast) The indicator is a tad short. I transpose that difference onto a max range dark matter and you have the screenshot. Sure there is a slight difference, but is it REALLY massive? For how easy it is to dodge and the fact that baleful can't be dodged, I think not.

Continuing Dark Matter vs Baleful, you said that dark matter has massive power? Well, lets look at vs one champion. In the cooldown of ONE Dark matter (Since we're talking early game I'll assume 100 AP for ease) Dark Matter will do 460(times the number of champions hit, including 0) Magic Damage at the cost of 150 mana. In those same 13 seconds you could cast 3 balefuls which would hit for (260+60) = 320. 320*3 = 960 damage at the cost of 225 mana. So you use a little more mana (shouldn't be a problem with tear anyways) and unless you're hitting 3 champions EVERY CAST, you do more damage.

Lastly, I'm sure you want to use the "Event Horizon makes Dark Matter not miss!" argument. Alright, well since it's early game Event Horizon doesn't stun long enough to cast first yet, so range difference is still the same as in the screenshot. Event horizon does no damage, but if used as a combo brings a longer cooldown into play. This cooldown is a whopping 24 seconds and costs another 90 mana. So in the end ONE combo will do(at it's MASSIVE range) a MASSIVE 460*(number of champions) damage for 240 mana cost. However, since the cooldown is twice as long as the previous statement, baleful strike can do 1920 damage at the cost of 450 mana. You would have to hit ALL five champions EVERY cast to out damage Baleful. Double the mana but quadruple the single target damage.

Dark matter is not stronger early. It just isn't. It has a better ap ratio and can hit more targets mid-late game during team fights so it is better there. Add in the benefits of last hitting and AP gain....I'd say at least go and try it out more. Maybe you weren't using Baleful as effectively as possible. Anyways, good luck.
lolumad


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CryHavoc

Senior Member

10-04-2009

Great guide. I'm definitely going to try this build next time I play Viegar.