[Guide] Veigar, The Tiny Master of HADOKEN!

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EchoRex

Senior Member

06-23-2010

As the changes are written, its a substantial nerf to Veigar's damage output but a very slight increase to his Stun Ring (Event Horizon) Spam, with a side of less mana regen needed early game despite not needing it as much now that you aren't trying to spam Baleful near as much.


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Gunflame

Senior Member

06-23-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by karadur View Post
Well its finally happened. Veigar finally got a substancial change. I'm not sure how i feel about it myself as the release notes are a little too vague on a few points. Since it says Baleful strike ALSO gives 1/2/3/4/5 ap for each champion kill from ANY source does that mean whenever you kill a champion no matter with what or when ANY champion is killed. Also do you still get the ap from minion kills? Do you still get ap from killing with Primordial and does it stack with Baleful now? Does Primordial still even give ap for a kill?

All these questions and more come to my mind. While I would consider the changes to Event Horizon and Dark matter to be a buff I'm afraid that Primordial Burst might have been nerfed to near uselessness against anyone without ap and even do less against those Mana champs that have AP. Heck I'm not even sure if it does more against the Manaless champs than what it did with the bonus damage buff even if they get ap. Of course thats asuming that the .8 of your and their ap means that there is no other ap ratio added in. Not really much of an asumption as they go since if they kept the normal ap ratio and basically added .8 to it then Primordial would probobly be far too rape.

Anyway I very much look forward to when you update the guide Roku as I found your thoughts and tips very insightful. Perhaps my fears are unfounded and Veigar will teach the true meaning of the Hadoken to the unbelievers.
It doesnt take much thinking to figure this out.

a) Baleful has its all "passive" (+1 AP per minion kill) and now everytime you kill a hero (even with autoattacks, ignite or sunfirecapes) you get +1/2/3/4 or 5 AP depending on the level of baleful.

b) Primoridial boost: You still get extra damage from your own AP. Basically now PB has an 2.0 AP ratio!!!! (1.2 from old + 0.8 from new)... The bonus damage now is based on the enemy AP, but you can still increase your damage even if your enemy has 0 AP. I think it is a decent boost. Suddenly now you want all your enemy teamt o have a 20 stack mejai with a zhonya ring... so you can show them your true power.

c)Echo7: You have no clue... Now they normalized his damage, greatly increase his capacity for early AP farming and now he can land his extremely powerful meteor strike because it only takes 1.2 seconds to land


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Rokudan

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The Council

06-24-2010

I'm leaning towards agreeing with karadur atm. I'm pretty hesitant about the changes because they seem overall pretty small, and I'm really wary about the primordial burst changes. Primordial burst seems to be nerfed in all cases other than the supremely idealistic ones, making it even less versatile / potent, but we'll have to see.

Once things play out a bit I'll definitely update my guide


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Gromzor

Member

06-24-2010

I posted this in the champ feedback section:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gromzor View Post
I like the change to event horizon. I think that was really important. I was hoping for more minor tweaks like this across the board : /

The baleful change seems lie it doesn't really accomplish anything. So now you get AP when you kill a champ with ignite, autoattack, and dark matter. But, you get less, when you kill with baleful, until you have it at max rank. Seems like it'll even out by the end of the match and result in lower AP gain early game which is when it's most noticeable. I'd rather have the old one, so it's maybe a minor nerf.

The change to dark matter will help in team fights, but hurt his burst combo. Once, you blow you cd's on him your just a free kill until they comeback up. So, losing burst damage is painful. Ambushing someone with dark matter > event horizon > baleful > ult is pretty key for him and this takes away from the damage done there. But, the reduced delay will be helpful in team fights and that's what matters in a close game so I'd say this ones good.

The ult change ...wtf?!. I'd like the old one back here. I'd rather have 1.2 of my ap than .8 of mine and .8 of targets in most cases. Never mind the loss of the flat bonus or bonus damage based on mana. And then no mana gain anymore. Did they remove the +5 ap for killing with primordial and figure it was rolled into the passive from baleful? This ult got nerfed badly. They should have lowered the cooldown to 30 seconds with these changes...this is not the big bang long cooldown spell it used to be.

The passive change is a buff in close games, again where it matters. Not having enemies see the debuff to locate you is a big help and the mana regen in early laning will completely change the way he lanes. I like this one, but it seems like it's going to change his playstyle and itemization significantly, so I can't wrap my head around it yet.

The armor and movement buffs are very nice. Especially for early game laning.

Overall, I think they could have retained some of the old aspects of his signature ult. He was pretty underpowered and I don't think they had to balance out the buffs by nerfing his ult that much.
I started playing him pretty often recently with better success than in a long time. The notes are vague so we'll see how it pans out. But, it seems like they reduced his burst, which is his strong point, and increased his early laning phase.

It seems like they are having a hard time properly balancing him across all ELO's. Because, he'd be more of a pub stomping monster if they kept the old ult with these buffs. But, this doesn't really help him in high-mid ELO where I think I am. It'll just change the playstyle a little.

A lot of times I find myself in a situation where I gotta kill or be killed, His offense is his best defense. I don't imagine I'd be winning any of those anymore with the damage reduction to DM and PB.


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k0b3 CleoFairy

Senior Member

06-24-2010

New Passive – Equilibrium: Veigar's mana regen is increased by 0.5% for each 1% of mana he's missing.

Wasn't this 1% instead of .5% yesterday?


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Xenotime Gaze

Senior Member

06-24-2010

um, im a new Viegar player, and so far i can say through my recent experience of both the pre/post patch that he definitely feels nerfed when it comes to damage, and is now feels more team dependant. there are no more mana problems though as far as i can tell xD


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Dessim8

Senior Member

06-24-2010

One of the biggest problems now are the reduced AP ratios of both Dark Matter AND Prim Burst, both are now .8 which kinda means you need more farming to compensate. Dark Matter does hit more, but it also is less powerful at the same mana cost. Fortunately the new passive really helps to negata mana issues.

On the other hand, DOES get better farming. Veigar gains rediculously good boost to the ease of In all seriousness, I've gotten the AP boost from kills that weren't mine. Proof: I had 9 AP but only 6 total minion kills... yea I shoulda taken a Screenie, but I didn't.

It's a mixed bag, but he has less mana issues and the passive is noticable like a half chalice. Though if you want to farm champ kills, you need to max Baleful. Simply put, the +5 for champ kills is only available then, but on all skills.

The Ultimate mana reduction is nice however and .4 seconds is surprisingly helpful for Dark Matter... though I still think it should be as unseen as real dark matter.


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OatmealCookie

Senior Member

06-24-2010

The Ult was changed, but is now even more situational. You thought it was bad finding a mana user to hit with it? Try finding an AP stacker.

Honestly, Veigar would be much better off if they had just lowered the cooldowns on his EH/DM by 5/6 seconds instead of what he got.


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Gunflame

Senior Member

06-24-2010

checked the new veigar... .he is HORRIBLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

All they needed to do was to give him the new passive, lower the cast time and cooldown of DM and EH and everything was perfect. Now he simply suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuucks!

Heck I thought they could just lower all spells costs by 10-15 mana and give him a new passive (same as before but instead of getting AP it would steal AP and convert it into Magic Penetration). Those 2 changes would've done plenty good to veigar... new veigar is just useless.


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Rokudan

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The Council

06-24-2010

He's better from a game design perspective I suppose...

but from potency he definitely isn't. Hopefully he'll get more love in the future...I really hope this wasn't it. I want Veigar to be viable again.