A problem with Ziggs.

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Gloriosum

Member

02-21-2012

Not to be rude or anything, but let's be honest, the lore for Ziggs is downright pathetic. Let's start with the whole kidnapped professors part of the story.

I get that it's possible for agents to infiltrate such a prestigious and important place, sure, but kidnapping all the professors? And transporting them all the way to a maximum security prison without a hitch and not even bothered by the military until afterwards? Something on that magnitude is a declaration of war for Pete's sake! And what does the Piltovian military do? "Well the walls are too big so we just won't do anything about it." Seriously? *facedesk*

So in response to this Ziggs invents a new weapon greater then apparently any explosives in Valoran by himself, (which is itself preposterous, a continent where literally half of the entire land mass is destroyed by magical energy used in war, and not one person combined magic and explosives the whole time?) inventing an entire new class of weapons just to save a bunch of hostages is stupid. I'm glad Riot didn't say how fast he did so, because it would have been an insult to the intelligence of the community.

Then finally Ziggs, a simple Yordle with no formal training in anything whatsoever takes oodles of completely untested super state of the art weaponry, (what would have happened in a non Holly Wood plot line is he would have been captured/killed on sight and Zaun would have the upper hand in it's military with the explosives acquired from the stupid Yordle) and sneaks into the prison, frees the professors, and sends the guards running with fancy grenades, what is this, Mission Impossible!?!?

Seriously Riot, this is insulting, give us some proper lore! >:(


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Fffogolin

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Senior Member

02-21-2012

Lore has sucked since the chinese overlords decided to scrap the department. Unfortunately I guess we should get used to it...


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SpicyJackTheBard

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Recruiter

02-21-2012

The lore is iffy, true, but that doesn't change the fact that he's a freaking hilarious champ. Just listen to that laughter...


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ThorRush

Senior Member

02-21-2012

Well, consider that in the real world, we've had gunpowder for like two thousand years, but it was only in the last century or so that the groundwork for the best explosives was even thought of.

Also Piltover and Zaun are techmaturgical rivals. How else do you think they're going to settle a dispute? If Zaun comes up with impenetrable defenses, of course Piltover will find a way to penetrate them.

As for the lore department ... I've been thinking the JoJ and the Judgments probably just aren't profitable. The actual champion lore does matter. Remember, they changed Shyvana's lore because it didn't make sense.


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Fffogolin

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Senior Member

02-21-2012

What upsets me is that riot would scrap a department that a big part of the community greatly enjoyed because it wasn't profitable. And even champion backgrounds have decreased considerably in quality, without mentioning that most character development came from judgments. It's truly a shame.


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Birdy51

Senior Member

02-21-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fffogolin View Post
Lore has sucked since the chinese overlords decided to scrap the department. Unfortunately I guess we should get used to it...
Believe it or not... Tencent does not decide what goes on with the lore. They invest in Riot Games, but ultimately the control is in Riot's corner. The idea that they are controlled by "chinese overlords" is complete and utter bigotry, and to be perfectly honest that comment doesn't belong in here.

That note aside... I agree with the OP. The idea that the Zaunite government would kidnap a large portion of the Piltovian proffessors is really... Meh. I mean honestly, they've been at war before, but this is just a seemingly random step. They supposably kidnapped everyon... From the center of Piltover... And managed to get them to an undisclosed location that is also a super-fortress?!

However, this idea is not some merit. It could have easily been that the Piltovian proffessors were meeting with Zaunite officials for peace talks, and they foolishly agreed to the terms of the Zaunites. When talks went sour, they simply up and kidnapped them. Ziggs, apparently being the only destructive soul in Piltover, was tasked with rescuing them, deeming the League as too slow a medium for their release. So rather than waiting for intervention from the League, Ziggs took matters into his own hands and ultimately suprised the Zaunites by doing something that they never expected Piltover to do. Blow up everything.

I mean honestly, they are Piltovian. They do strike me as the "walk all over me" type sometimes. Unlike Zaun, they are much more cautious and calculated. This makes them slow to act, which explains why Ziggs saw it as the perfect oppurtunity to gain their favour once more.

However, what I would have loved to see is a scorned Ziggs defecting to the Zaunites. Rejected by his own people, he turns to the government of Zaun. This move would go a long ways in explaining a lot of his quirky and destructive ways. He always struck as a maddened scientist, with a touch of the Veigar "kill you all because I'm short" syndrome. Ziggs could easily be portrayed as a yordle who simply doesn't have enough companions.

Besides, Zaun is really lacking in burst mages, where as Piltover and Bandle City are already loaded on squishies. It works in that sense too!


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Fffogolin

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Senior Member

02-21-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Birdy51 View Post
Believe it or not... Tencent does not decide what goes on with the lore. They invest in Riot Games, but ultimately the control is in Riot's corner. The idea that they are controlled by "chinese overlords" is complete and utter bigotry, and to be perfectly honest that comment doesn't belong in here.

That note aside... I agree with the OP. The idea that the Zaunite government would kidnap a large portion of the Piltovian proffessors is really... Meh. I mean honestly, they've been at war before, but this is just a seemingly random step. They supposably kidnapped everyon... From the center of Piltover... And managed to get them to an undisclosed location that is also a super-fortress?!

However, this idea is not some merit. It could have easily been that the Piltovian proffessors were meeting with Zaunite officials for peace talks, and they foolishly agreed to the terms of the Zaunites. When talks went sour, they simply up and kidnapped them. Ziggs, apparently being the only destructive soul in Piltover, was tasked with rescuing them, deeming the League as too slow a medium for their release. So rather than waiting for intervention from the League, Ziggs took matters into his own hands and ultimately suprised the Zaunites by doing something that they never expected Piltover to do. Blow up everything.

I mean honestly, they are Piltovian. They do strike me as the "walk all over me" type sometimes. Unlike Zaun, they are much more cautious and calculated. This makes them slow to act, which explains why Ziggs saw it as the perfect oppurtunity to gain their favour once more.

However, what I would have loved to see is a scorned Ziggs defecting to the Zaunites. Rejected by his own people, he turns to the government of Zaun. This move would go a long ways in explaining a lot of his quirky and destructive ways. He always struck as a maddened scientist, with a touch of the Veigar "kill you all because I'm short" syndrome. Ziggs could easily be portrayed as a yordle who simply doesn't have enough companions.

Besides, Zaun is really lacking in burst mages, where as Piltover and Bandle City are already loaded on squishies. It works in that sense too!
Well, I apologize then. I only heard about "chinese overlords" after riot started acting more greedy (releasing only 6300 champions without lowering other champion's IP prices for a long time, releasing only 975 RP skins and scraping lore) so I assumed it was their fault. To be honest I didn't even know the whole story so I guess that it was an uneducated comment on my part. I guess I was just hoping that Riot didn't change so much and it was actually someone else's fault...

Anyway, about Ziggs' lore. I find it highly unlikely that Ziggs would be tasked with rescuing the inventors in the first place too. I mean, considering the time that he had to prepare, there ARE other Piltovian champions that could go in his place almost immediately (considering that Heimer was kidnapped, there were Caitlyn, Corki and Ezreal.) Anyway the simple fact that we have so much room for speculation is an indicator of the poor quality of the lore we've seen since Shyvana,


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PlayGooYa

Senior Member

02-21-2012

I sort of assumed the "kidnapped professors" wasn't literally every professor. Chances are that most or all of them had to attend Ziggs's presentations anyway, so just a few of them will do.

Point taken that the kidnapping is basically an act of war. They did track the kidnappers, so the evidence is pretty much all there. Especially given the League's existence, Zaun would likely just fork over the parties responsible and pretend like it wasn't really the government's fault.

I was also under the impression that Ziggs rescued the professors without being officially assigned a mission. He just went because he wanted to, probably out of a sense of duty or loyalty.

It's more of an "other reindeer" story than an "embittered mad scientist" story.


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PlayGooYa

Senior Member

02-21-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Birdy51 View Post
However, this idea is not some merit. It could have easily been that the Piltovian proffessors were meeting with Zaunite officials for peace talks, and they foolishly agreed to the terms of the Zaunites. When talks went sour, they simply up and kidnapped them. Ziggs, apparently being the only destructive soul in Piltover, was tasked with rescuing them, deeming the League as too slow a medium for their release. So rather than waiting for intervention from the League, Ziggs took matters into his own hands and ultimately suprised the Zaunites by doing something that they never expected Piltover to do. Blow up everything.
You don't show up to a diplomatic meeting on somebody else's home turf with a show of force. That makes no sense. That basically means that you're burning bridges and that you are too untrustworthy to ever talk to again. Your diplomats would never be taken seriously after that.

Besides, scientists don't really participate in diplomacy. That isn't really their job.


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Fronslin

Senior Member

02-23-2012

Assuming that he didnt wait to join the league after saving the professers, For all we know it could have happened a while ago. He is a scientist and maybe he was busy



All im saying is there could have been a gap of time between events in stuff, there are parts of the story which you can only speculate.

example
"Before long", How long? a week? a month? a year?


Off topic question: do we know how long yordles live?