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Chogath is Top-Tier (Again): The Definitive Guide by 5HITCOMBO

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Lorifel

Recruiter

07-12-2010

Well, what build would you suggest then?

This is my original build:
http://leaguecraft.com/builder/Cho%27Gath/6b5b4789ff7cb3d965749b5a147a5c6a
(Warmog's, Abyssal, Zhonya, etc.)
7746 EHP, 237 AP

This is the alternative build I've tried to create:
http://leaguecraft.com/builder/Cho%27Gath/8d57ac99095a3151ce694305f4710d7d
(RoA, Rylay's, FoN, etc.)
7864 EHP, 130 AP

The second one packs approximately the same EHP, but is 500g cheaper, has higher movement speed, though it lacks quite a bit on the offencive side. Any other suggestions? Please, keep in mind that playing mostly PUG games I can't allways rely on my team, so I would like to keep high EHP and HP regen for more staying power.


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unentschieden

Senior Member

07-12-2010

Don´t build according to a predertermined itemset but according to the individual game. If enemys keep ganking you to deny Stacksbuilding you need to prioritize defensive items. On the other hand if the opposition doesn´t target you build your AP items first.

Dorans Ring is always good for early laning if you feel you need a bit more oomph there. Then I´d suggest going for a Kages Lucky Pick, a extremely cost effective source of AP if you get it fast. Early AP will effectivly grant you very nice HP and Mana regen since you can wipe Minionwaves easier - utilise your Passive, only buy regen if it´s not enough.

Assemble Boots and most likely a few migitation defense items: Aegis is great, also the Guardian Angel should be considered. You might be able to stay with just the components for a while if you don´t suffer an early death.
It´s a matter of experience, if the game goes well Cho can rely on his Feaststacks at that point. He is a bit snowbally with his stacks, if you have a great early game building too much defense just slows you down. If you are not shure just be safe and finish a no-brainer like Aegis.

If Mana DOES turn out to be a problem try Glacial Shroud, besides Mana it also offers cheap CDR.

Stuff like FoN, Thornmails etc. look great in a build desinger like Leaguecraft since they offer great stats per Inventory space but in a game you are more concerned with stats and usefullnes per Gold. Also it´s impossible to evaluate the usefullness of a specialised item like FoN without looking at the opposing Team, it´s great if they are Magicheavy but otherwise...


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5HATCOMBO

Senior Member

07-12-2010

So, I've been trying out double NLR lately and it's been working really, really well. Basically I just open regen boots NLR NLR GA with Boots of Swiftness somewhere inbetween and from here get a Giant's Belt and either turn it into a Warmog's if the game is going late (it's 100% worth it here as you will be getting kills and assists on champs left and right with your huge AoE nukes, and GA provides quite a bit of armor and a bit of MR for the midgame) or work on Zhonya's #1 and Rylai's. If you went Warmog's go Zhonya's next.

The game pretty much never goes longer than this, most of the games I've been playing with this strategy go to ~50 minutes and I'm still wanting to buy more stuff. On the upside, you just run around tanking everything and nuking super, super hard.

I'll be updating the build again after a bit of testing. Oh, and also, all of this has been done from the side lanes .


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5HATCOMBO

Senior Member

07-12-2010

Quote:
Lorifel:

And as for those Feast stacks: I'd rather consider them to be an expendable stuff. Sometimes it is your job as tank to stand ground and die for your team, and not run like a ***** having your precious stacks in mind. Sometimes you get ganked. Yes, having Feast stacks is nice, but I'd rather see them as luxury.

On TT that's cool, but on SR it's like a 1200 hp difference, which is HUGE, because when you're at 6 Feast is a ~1k nuke you save for teamfights while when you have 3 or less stacks it's pretty much "look for blue buff and feast as much as possible because I only have 2k hp."


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Lorifel

Recruiter

07-13-2010

Quote:
5HITCOMBO:
So, I've been trying out double NLR lately and it's been working really, really well.

I'd rather take Abyssal scepter instead of second NLR. Surely it costs 1050 more gold, but it also packs nice MR to make you tankier and cool aura to make your spells hit for more. I tend to grab Negatrone cloak as one of my first items anyways, because it is a huge bonus against mid-game nuking mayhem.


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unentschieden

Senior Member

07-13-2010

5Hits approach is to abuse the strong early laningphase of Cho and the free Survivability from Feaststacks so he can buy pure AP. Cho doesn´t NEED MR to survive Midgame if his earlygame was strong enough. Remember: Cho has, if fully feaststacked one of the, if not THE, best innate durability of any champ. Maybe Mordekaiser is better but he certainly can´t nuke like Cho.


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Lorifel

Recruiter

07-13-2010

Nice to know that tank doesn't need MR in midgame. However for some reason I LOVE soaking magic damage for my team with my huge health pool and fantastic HP regeneration.

By the way, how do you guys regenerate health?
Let's say our team has just won a teamfight, slaughtering the enemy team and has 1 munute to push like crazy. You have 1.5k health missing after the fight. At your lvl 16 you can regenerate this health back by killing 20 minions (~ 3 full minion waves). Unfortunately your teammates are pushing with you, so you may feel lucky if you lasthit 1/3 of that amount. One minute later you are going to tank towers and possibly cover your team's retreat.

Hint: even half-farmed Warmog's armour regenerates 732 hp per minute. FoN regenerates even more, especially with a high health pool. I found that having one of these two items is essential for my playstyle.

N.B. Warmog's armour costs only 450 gold more than 6 Regrowth Pendants. However after being fully farmed it regenerates even a bit more HP than these 6 Regrowth Pendants taken together (leaving aside the best max HP boost for a single item). Talk about being not cost effective. I say it is still the best choice for HP+regen item for a farming tank (assuming all your other items give high MR and armour values).

There's still no reason to complete Warmog's before getting some MR and armour (and maybe some AP as well) I believe. But after I get these I usually finish Warmog's. Sorry for being so stubborn. My experience with Cho'Gath is rather small so far.


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5HATCOMBO

Senior Member

07-13-2010

You're thinking in tank-cho mindset. I just lay a rupture and a scream down and I farm about 20 creeps at once. With one NLR you usually one-shot the casters with rupture, and if there's a big group of creeps you just run up, rupture, scream, and hit a few times and you've farmed as many creeps as you can hit in no time flat.


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Lorifel

Recruiter

07-13-2010

Quote:
5HITCOMBO:
You're thinking in tank-cho mindset.

Is it a bad mindset? My goal is to double the output of Cho's spells (~250 AP + MR-reducing aura + CDR% pretty much assure it), while still being able to tank. A 80% tank + 70% caster so to say.

Quote:
5HITCOMBO:
I just lay a rupture and a scream down and I farm about 20 creeps at once. With one NLR you usually one-shot the casters with rupture, and if there's a big group of creeps you just run up, rupture, scream, and hit a few times and you've farmed as many creeps as you can hit in no time flat.

Not gonna happen in my scenario, dude. =)
Those 20 minions on our way to enemy tower would be taken by friendly Tristana, or Annie, or Sion. Because they kill minions faster than my rupture procs.


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Lorifel

Recruiter

07-13-2010

I've just made a small research to find out how much the 20MR-reduction aura from Abyssal scepter is adding to a lvl 5 rupture.

Champion without MR items has 30MR. I run 9 M-penetration runes (8.5 MP total). So without AP items and MR-red aura the lvl5 rupture would hit for 305/1.22=250 hp damage
With MR-red aura it would hit for 305/1.02=299 hp damage
299-250=49 more damage roughly equivalent to having 60 more AP

At the point of having 250 AP items the difference becomes even higher.
Without aura: (305+250)/1.22=455 hp damage
With MR-red aura: (305+250)/1.02=544 hp damage
544-455=89 more damage roughly equivalent to having 108 more AP

Of course there are cons as well:
1. The difference is far smaller on MR-heavy targets like tanks
2. You have to be rather close to target to apply the aura effect

All in all I wouldn't be so set on the double NLR combo any more.