Why is dodge bad for the game exactly?

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nathywathy

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Senior Member

11-13-2011

Shoutout to necrofight!

All hail the necrofight!


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David Tom

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Recruiter

11-13-2011

It's kind of BS how there are offensive randomness chances but they're trying to take out the only defensive randomness chance. IMO remove all randomness if you're going to remove defensive randomness.


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EagLeaf

Senior Member

11-13-2011

Crit, while RNG based, is modifying your damage in a predictable fashion. That is, if an auto-attack based champion crits, you still know that you need to build armor against them. The crit chance doesn't suddenly make an auto-attack noticeable, it enhances it.

Dodge modifies incoming damage in an unpredictable fashion. That is, if you dodge an auto-attack from their mage but not their carry, you don't feel any different than if you hadn't dodged at all. Furthermore, dodging fully reduces the damage of an auto-attack. It doesn't just modify your defense, it modifies your opponents attacks. Yes, there does exist an item to negate dodge, however the fact that someone with almost 0% dodge chance can suddenly get an effective 600 health increase (i.e. dodging a crit) in their health doesn't feel fair since you couldn't see that dodge chance.

So in summary: crit good, dodge bad.

Edit: To make a greater note of why dodge is bad:

Dodge during fights randomly and indiscriminately increases the effective health you had for that fight. Dodging a minion gives you a minuscule increase in EH (Effective Health), while dodging a Tryndamere crit massively increases your EH. The reason this is bad is because:

1. You have no ability to choose what to dodge and this leads to you randomly becoming godlike or absolute ****.

2. You have no way of knowing how effective your dodge was. Especially in a team fight where many people might be attacking you, you can't tell if you just dodged a minion or if you just dodged what might have been a fatal crit.

And to counter people saying that "crit does the same thing"; crit actually behaves differently:

1. Even if your attacks sometimes become twice as effective, you're still choosing who you are attacking. You're choosing to deal damage to a specific person.

2. The enemy health bar readily makes it apparent how effective your attack was, and even after a crit, you still have the choice to either continue to deal damage or to not deal damage, you aren't criting a random person, you're criting the person you wanted to attack, this doesn't create confusion about what you did being effective or not.


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IS14c2b84c51f88b

Senior Member

11-13-2011

Wriggles proc doesn't actually affect anything except the poor jungle creeps. But Riot said they didn't like how you could get a lucky 3 dodges in a row (Or more) and that be the only reason you lived.


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nathywathy

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Senior Member

11-13-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by 123B1TCHSLAP View Post
Wriggles proc doesn't actually affect anything except the poor jungle creeps. But Riot said they didn't like how you could get a lucky 3 dodges in a row (Or more) and that be the only reason you lived.
How about that Cait who only survived because of the lifesteal off of 3 crits in a row :/


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hypnotic13371337

Senior Member

11-13-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by 123B1TCHSLAP View Post
Wriggles proc doesn't actually affect anything except the poor jungle creeps. But Riot said they didn't like how you could get a lucky 3 dodges in a row (Or more) and that be the only reason you lived.
the same holds true for crit as well, say your getting mirrored in a blind game, and you die cause he got 3 crits in a row.

ive had it be where ive died cause of 1 lucky ass crit 5 mins into the game


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ZombieSteveJobs

Junior Member

11-13-2011

Having a very significant chance to completely negate someone's main form of damage output is extremely bad for the game. And don't say "buy Sword of the Divine".

Could you imagine, for example, ability evasion? Evasion is like spell shields on steroids against auto attacks.


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IS14c2b84c51f88b

Senior Member

11-13-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by hypnotic13371337 View Post
the same holds true for crit as well, say your getting mirrored in a blind game, and you die cause he got 3 crits in a row.

ive had it be where ive died cause of 1 lucky ass crit 5 mins into the game
Yeah but to counter crit you just build some armor. To counter dodge you had to build a SotD. Which is pretty expensive and doesn't synergize with just any champ.


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Ergheis

Senior Member

11-13-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by nathywathy View Post
How about that Cait who only survived because of the lifesteal off of 3 crits in a row :/
She bought lifesteal, and crit, and you did not buy enough armor even though you knew she had enough crit to.... crit.

The same can be said of dodge, yes, but instead of armor, you have to buy an Attack Speed boosting item that does little else.


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NessOnett

Senior Member

11-13-2011

GP's ult is FAR from "random" now that they re-made it.

But the primary thing that people don't seem to grasp is build vs counter. With Wriggles, with crit, with etc, the person CHOOSES to put their fate partially in RNG hands. They build it because they want the randomness, and they take the risk when doing it. Just like the risk they take when getting a Majeis/etc.

But dodge works on the other end, it's something the enemy builds(or has innately) that screws you over. If you don't crit, you don't crit, and it was your choice to buy crit. But if you miss because of a dodge, there's nothing you made a conscious choice about there short of not buying a SotD.