elo hell doesn't exist in the lower elo brackets

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zeemsteR

Senior Member

11-08-2011

Read the whole thing if you want to understand what I am saying.

What I think : I have substantial evidence of this in season 1. My account was sitting at about 1500 and I was staying around that level. The only reason I couldn't get much more higher is because at this bracket people understood the game much better (yes their were still trolls) and one mistake can ruin the whole game for a team. Meaning that the team you get must make sure that they stay sharp at all times if they want to win. Thus coming to a conclusion that at the higher elo brackets, in my personal opinion, you need a better team and greater coherance between players to win in higher elo.

Granted I will admit that 99% of the games that I played in that bracket, I made a minimum of 2-3 mistakes per game (small or big) and am starting to acknowledge those mistakes now. Who knows maybe those were the mistakes that prevented me from moving on to the next bracket not my team members who I THINK caused me to lose the game.

Once I got to 1500 I quickly put "elo hell" to the test:

I created an account, got it to level 30 and queue dodged until I got to 800 elo. Amazingly within a week and a half the account was up to 1450. Did I get lucky? I hardly doubt it as I wasn't going 0-10-1 and winning. I had the ability to lead the team and in total I only lost 5-6 games. I could likely do this 1000 times and get back to 1450 95% of the times.

Now I would like to make some general comments;

The thing that I see most common in ALL brackets whether your 0 or 2000 elo is that a player is so quick to blame others but fail to understand that THEY themselves possibly did something wrong. For example I quite litterly saw this in a 1900 elo game. One guy told someone else not to facecheck bushes and quite litterly bashed him and typed **** to him. Then the team recovers from it and the game is fairly fair now and that same guy facechecks a bush later on in the game. The team loses and at the end the player is quick to blame "player x" because "had he not facechecked that first time we woulda been better off." Then they come on the forums and cry about elo hell BUT when infact it was them who caused the loss. (this is just a simple example).

Players need to understand that they themselves are making mistakes that they just don't see. Overextending, underwarding, bad map awareness (wow wtf you didn't call mia is a common one) and bad choices in general that may seem good to you but hurt the team (ie going for red when your mid turret is under huge pressure by the enemy team).

~Anyways I will continue writing about this if you guys want me to (judging off of the replies and upvotes) because I honestly have a ton to say to everyone but I want to make sure I am not wasting my time and you guys are actually listening to me.

tl;dr:look at title


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Ghostface Sumnah

Senior Member

11-08-2011

A few points you failed to acknowledge in your post.

The only reason I couldn't get much more higher is because at this bracket people understood the game much better (yes their were still trolls) and one mistake can ruin the whole game for a team. Meaning that the team you get must make sure that they stay sharp at all times if they want to win.

Just that someone has a lower ELO than you does not in fact ensure their inferiority. Your comment then, that one mistake can ruin a whole game, is no less potentially true in a lower ELO bracket than a mid/high. That is, the potential to seize on another team's mistakes is great across all skill levels. In fact, competing in a lower ELO only increases the probability that your team mates will not share this same heightened awareness of game mechanics, and that more mistakes are likely to occur (on both sides).

Now on the flip side I created an account, got it to level 30 and queue dodged until I got to 800 elo. Amazingly within a week and a half the account was up to 1450. Did I get lucky? I hardly doubt it as I wasn't going 0-10-1 and winning

This is a baseless assertion. Going 0-10-1 and still winning means you got carried. Your question "Did I get lucky" is more aptly worded, "Did I get lucky and get team mates who worked together?" You mention leading the team - are you suggesting you've never been in a game where you've attempted to stay optimistic and steer the team in a coordinated effort only to have one or several teammates disregard your advice?

I could likely do this 1000 times and get back to 1450 95% of the times.

Without sounding like an *******, I'd like to see you do this. However, in the event that this happened 950 times out of a thousand (you climbing from 800 to 1500 ELO) it would really only indicate to me that it is far more likely at a lower ELO that one STAR of a player can lead his lesser skilled team into victory against another team of only mildly skilled players.

You discount a lot of other factors however that impact the game before skill even comes into play. No one is arguing that trolls don't exist theoretically at all skill levels - but I would wager my left nut that the incidence of leavers/afkers/general griefing is far higher at low ELO. Bad team composition, lack of communication during draft pick, instant locking - all of this and more runs rampant at the 1.1k and lower rankings.

Look - I realize how tired the back and forth argument about ELO hell is, but consider this. At its core, League of Legends is a team game. In a solo queue match you are joined by four other players you've most likely never met or played with. A lot can happen before that game even starts that can gimp you. Furthermore, with a range of skill levels and variables all across the board it really CAN seem like the stars have to align sometimes for a good game to occur at a low rank.

I don't enjoy the phrase "ELO Hell" anymore than the next person. Maybe Low ELO Diaspora or Low ELO Blues or something else is more fitting, but the fact stands that there is a LOT at play people (often in higher ELO's to be fair) seem to discount when people complain about their team and rank.

Your argument is not invalid, but it isn't sound either when you consider the issue on the whole.


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Loctorak

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Senior Member

11-08-2011

"Bad team composition, lack of communication during draft pick, instant locking - all of this and more runs rampant at the 1.1k and lower rankings."

A thousand times yes. I picked Rammus and then four picks later my opponent picks Caitlyn? I mean thanks for the win but wow.

Also yeah, it seems like everyone can play 1-3 champions and if the comp doesn't suit that... Well... Too bad cause they only know Jax, Talon and Tryndamere.


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lithanium

Senior Member

11-08-2011

Sometimes i feel like Elo Hell is real...
I had a losing streak of 18 games once... all because someone left. someone left. 18 games. in a row.
I used to be 7/1 in ranked. 1400 elo. then someone left.
Now im 1150. =(
i might have no reason, but i need somewhere to cry.


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Ghostface Sumnah

Senior Member

11-08-2011

It's just a fact. With the massive player base and vast number of variables at play in a Solo Queue Ranked match - all anyone can really do, arguing for or against - is offer up anecdotal evidence. That's really all I'm getting at. People who cry "It doesn't exist!" just beg for numerous others to come point out evidence to the contrary. The evidence seems to indicate that it is both difficult and frustrating for a potentially mid-ELO player to climb out of low-ELO for the reasons mentioned above.


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tempname076325

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Member

11-09-2011

Bad team comps lose games. Low elo players can often only play 1 champ and not play that champ well. And they don't communicate as much in champ select. Erego, ELO hell is real. It's just that simple really.

Scenario 1: I'm fifth pick. Goodie. I run to the bathroom, return, and find that summoners 1-4 have chosen: Ryze, Leblanc, Swain, and Vladimir. Good thing a dodge only costs you 10 ELO.

Scenario 2: We have a genuinely decent looking team. Picks Cho, Brand, Nocturne, and Caitlyn.

"Hey fifth pick, can you play support buddy?"

"Is Nasus ok?"

"No wtf pick Alistar or Taric or someone like that."

"I don't have any champs like that."

GG bottom lane nasus.

ELO hell is real, my friends.


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NakedGranny

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Senior Member

11-09-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by lithanium View Post
Sometimes i feel like Elo Hell is real...
I had a losing streak of 18 games once... all because someone left. someone left. 18 games. in a row.
I used to be 7/1 in ranked. 1400 elo. then someone left.
Now im 1150. =(
i might have no reason, but i need somewhere to cry.
and this is why Riot still doesn't deserve a single penny from me.

when i can be guaranteed to have a fair, fun match every time, i might consider it (if they fix the **** camera first), but at that point i think they just shouldn't be in business if it takes them more than two years to solve the very most basic problems that have been with the game since launch.


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Emeraldw

Senior Member

11-09-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by NakedGranny View Post
and this is why Riot still doesn't deserve a single penny from me.

when i can be guaranteed to have a fair, fun match every time, i might consider it (if they fix the **** camera first), but at that point i think they just shouldn't be in business if it takes them more than two years to solve the very most basic problems that have been with the game since launch.
.....Can't tell if troll or stupid.


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SNSD YURl

Junior Member

11-09-2011

elo hell exists in all brackets. elo hell is different for every single person, my elo hell is different than your elo hell this much is evident by watching streams or even your friends playing.

my definition of elo hell - the point where you are able to perform rather well in games but still unable to carry to win the majority of your games. the hell part comes in when you yourself are unable to find a solution to your problem which results in your elo free falling instead of increasing.

it's important to remember that everyone deals with the same issues that you do or have there are trolls are every elo, dcs at every elo etc.

my advice is to just assess your play after a game and try to find a solution that would have allowed you to win your game. basically just find out what you could have done differently some games you will not be able to do this but for the majority I've found you can, at the very least it will make you a better solo queue player. it is easiest to carry from the middle lane but from any role you can significantly carry your team at any part of the game, if you truly are a better player than people you are playing against you should crush your lane and then help your teammates who aren't having the same success. once you unable to do this you are getting closer to your true elo.

I hope what I've said helps some.


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YamiBelgarath

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Senior Member

11-09-2011

Just don't solo queue unless you have someone you know 100% for sure you can always carry uber hard in. This is from someone who has never played a ranked game and only watched about 15-20 hours of streams, but still. It's common sense. If you want to play a support character, unless somehow you plan on carrying as Taric, you need to queue with at least one person whom you know will maximize your potential as a support. Going in solo queue with the intention to support is completely relying on someone else to succeed, when we all know a good percentage of the people out there in the low ELO are not going to succeed.

I don't plan on touching ranked until I have either a team of 3 for TT or 5 for SR which I can consistently rely on. Once I get the hang of ranked games in a setting where I'm playing with good friends, I'll probably then start venturing into ranked with lower and lower numbers of people while trying to get better and better at a carry role. That way, when I solo queue, I know exactly how to use my characters, avoid stupid mistakes, and carry the game. That's also what normal games are for- to practice getting your reaction time, your map awareness, etc skills up such that you are just better than the other people. If you are playing a carry in any ELO and you lose without having the best stats on your team and obliterating in the lane phase (when team cooperation isn't quite so vital) than you deserve that loss and need to play better to complain that you are stuck with worse players.

TLDR: If you play a carry you are confident with and don't win the laning phase, and you complain about losing the game due to others, you aren't better enough to complain. Don't assume you're better than everyone else just because you don't like your ELO.