I want your Dominion thoughts and impressions!

First Riot Post
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Isysar

Senior Member

11-07-2011

Here's my two cents.

Dominion is fast paced, and fun, (quote HotshotGG, "it's fast, it's fun"), but actually really fell short of my expectations for one reason: I really feel that tanks, many ad carries, and especially support champions are very UP in Dominion.

I know that there's always going to be a FotM, and that a solid professional meta has yet to develop for Dominion (although, thankfully, we finally seem to have got people to understand the JUST HOLD 3 POINTS paradigm), but Dominion really doesn't seem to offer much reason to play a support champion, a tank, or a fabulously squishy AD carry when the average team you place against is all burst assassins and tanky DPS with the odd heimer, rammus, or AP shaco.

I love the team work element, specifically of team FIGHTS. There's plenty of fighting, but just skirmishes, and in a 2v2 with Sona and EZ vs. Jax and Akali you know **** well what the outcome of that is going to be, doesn't matter if you're building Sona tanky as ****, you are not going to have a prayer of having that be a fair fight.

In short, Dominion has, and will continue to have strategy, but it's not the strategy I enjoy of well fought 5v5 team fights. And although it initially sounded awesome, I actually really dislike all the free farm everyone gets. It makes sense of course for the game mode, but you can't deny anyone from getting fed out their ass, and champs that take a good degree of skill to play efficiently on SR (Poppy for instance) become unstoppable gods for doing absolutely nothing. They can feed like **** if they wanted, and by end game, they will be unkillable bursting machines that you cannot do anything about.

EDIT: Other thoughts: Mana is **** useless entirely (except Ryze). So is mana regeneration. Also, I NEVER play Dominion anymore, except with my cousin who is leveling and that's all he plays. He hates the snowball on SR, and he's really bad at that mode as a whole. Doesn't want to learn it either. Yah, there's a BIG learning curve to SR, but I really like farming and gradually outstripping my opponents. Yah, sometimes you get the feeling of inevitable loss on SR, but ya know what, that's life. You got out played, move on and get better. I want to work for Riot Games, but I'm **** compared to the people that work there. So either I hone my skills and get better, or forget about it. That's life. I miss that on Dom.


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aim1essgun

Senior Member

11-07-2011

Impressions:

-Dominion is very fun.

-Balance: Honestly I've seen so many of the "OP" champs lose or do badly that I don't know what to think anymore. Rammus, Shaco and Heimer's kits definitely interact with Dom in ways that make them much much stronger, and other champs like Poppy get a chance to shine, but are they game breaking? Akali is interesting, Sweeper should counter her but a lot of people seem to not realize it exists.

As for the people saying they see the same champs every game over and over...I see about as much variance as SR, tbh. And the idea that every team is 4 bruisers and some botlaner is ridiculous. That kind of team fails against competent opponents, and I don't see it hardly at all anyways.

-Biggest peeve: Playing Riven, my dash abilities interact with the map objects in annoying ways. If there's a way for her dashes to slide off stuff instead of getting randomly stuck after moving 2 inches, that would be most welcome.

As for bigger issues, score just seems useless. I love numbers and being rewarded by numbers but I'm not sure how to design score so that it makes any sense as a contribution metric.

-Exclusively Dominion? No way. Much of the beauty of Dominion is that it lies parallel to SR, and both provide very different gaming experiences. If you get tired of one you can hop to the other. Or you can choose one of the other depending on how much time you have to play.


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Isysar

Senior Member

11-07-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Primanocte View Post
Balance is awful. Some champs simply aren't even viable (Nasus, Morde) while others are so blatantly OP you really need 10+ bans to even come close to covering all the OP champs.



5 or 4 capping ends up hurting you more than helping you, which is counter intuitive. The best strat (only strat) is still to cap three and sit on them. Capping more than that only stretches your team too thin and subjects you to backdooring.



No one I know. All my friends and I avoid it like the plague.



Tried it pretty extensively. Its just poorly thought out. All champs are balanced for 5v5, and fights in Dominion are rarely 5v5. It makes fighting an exercise in frustration because you can't deny XP/Gold/Levels to that Jax or Tryndamere.

Another problem is that in some games there simply isn't enough fighting. I've won games before without scoring a single kill. That is boring.

Then you have the strategy. Its cap 3 and defend. Every game. Thats it. Strategy would be better if only one node was by each team's spawn points and 3 nodes straddled the middle of the map at the top, middle and bottom.

Honestly, its a pretty embarrassingly bad addition to the game and Riot wasted way too much time and resources on it.

I disagree with the last sentence this guy said, but otherwise, I basically agree. It doesn't have the depth I'm looking for


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Vichar

Senior Member

11-07-2011

You guys know about Poppy and Rammus. Shaco is not far behind in banworthiness. Enough said about that.

I think Dominion is gobs of fun, especially for folks who are attention span challenged. I've only encountered one game where someone even tried to surrender. It's nice that comebacks are not only possible, but happen quite often.

After a little LoL hiatus after season 1, I found upon returning that your community is still full of bad manners and trolls. Apparently, losses are never their fault and I am often the "worst X ever" despite scoring 2nd on the team. So Dominion doesn't attract a different quality of person.

I like the fast-paced nature of the game, and although I didn't like the removal of wards initially I've since come to understand the reasoning behind it.

I'm a little sad that some of my favorite champions seem disadvantaged on this board. Having said that, the balance is pretty decent if a few OP champs were removed from consideration. I kind of wish more people wanted to play draft because as it stands right now it seems to take twice as long to find a Draft game as a Blind Pick game.


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Redtah

Senior Member

11-07-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by VeigarTheHorrible View Post
Hi guys, we've been talking internally and throwing some ideas around about how we want to tweak Dominion and I just wanted to drop by to get some of your guys' raw feedback on what you'd like to see!


Some things I'd be particularly interested in hearing about would be:

-What are your impressions of the balance on Dominion? (If you're a serious player that's gearing up for competitive Dominion, I especially want to hear from you!)

-What is your biggest pet peeve about Dominion?

-Are there any players out there who now play exclusively Dominion?

-Thoughts from players who tried Dominion and feel like it just isn't their cup of tea. Are there any particular reasons that stand out? Fixable (wink wink) reasons?
I can't wait for ranked Dominion to come out personally. About 90% of the games I play are Dominion at this point. I'm approximately +50 wins on Dominion whenever I queue theres a decent queue time, if I queue with 4 of my friends its almost a guaranteed 6-10 minute wait.

Alright now that I have conveyed my intention of being a competitive Dominion player

-What are your impressions of the balance on Dominion? (If you're a serious player that's gearing up for competitive Dominion, I especially want to hear from you!)

Dominion to me seems pretty balanced the biggest problem I see is Tanky DPS typically outshines all other builds/champs. All ranged carries except Kogmaw Graves and Vayne are almost useless. All AP Carries eventually fall off except the tankier ones, Ryze & Rumble are all that come to mind initially.

-What is your biggest pet peeve about Dominion?

The Importance of bottom lane is just too great as it stands. I don't know if it is actually longer but it definitely feels that way and because of this it is easier to amass creeps to push a tower. Which in turn means you need someone down there who can clear creep waves and/or push creep waves very well. Now either one of two things happen. Both teams pick a good bottom laner or one team does and they get a huge advantage because of this. I still have not lost bottom lane as Yorick to one person and have rarely lost it to a gank with one other person (2 people). I have had almost as much success with Skarner, Nasus, and Singed (Depending on who is bottom) while building them all tanky dps. There are other champions who do well on bottom but are extremely vulnerable to ganks because they end up being squishy. So from a competitive view you either pick Yorick or risk losing bottom and then if neither team picks him you need to pick a good bottom or risk losing bottom still and if your team cannot hold bottom you will eventually lose the game. As to others saying bottom is boring, I have never felt bored on bottom but it is definitely more fun to be fighting 4v4 top/mid/etc.

The other particularly annoying thing is the community's attitude towards Dominion and how its dumb because *insert random reason here*. I know the game will never balanced around Dominion but does that instantly mean it cannot be a competitive game that there is no skill involved and its faceroll team deathmatch not a single shred of strategy to be had?

One last thing but I feel this way about Summoner's Rift as well. Is the number of bans needs to scale linearly with the number of champions or something. I just feel like there are more champions with the potential to be ridiculous because they cannot be straight denied like they can be on Summoner's Rift.

-Are there any players out there who now play exclusively Dominion?

I **** near exclusively play Dominion now.


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ManaPowered

Senior Member

11-07-2011

-What are your impressions of the balance on Dominion? (If you're a serious player that's gearing up for competitive Dominion, I especially want to hear from you!)
Unless you balance SR separate from Dominion then are naturally going to run into some unbalanced issues. I find that as the meta shifts around, people will learn to get over certain champs and their play styles. I guess it's still a little too early to tell since I pretty much see the standard 4 top, 1 bot play every game.

-What is your biggest pet peeve about Dominion?
My biggest has been the ability of teams to rubberband back from huge deficits to win games. It's getting better, but still not perfect.

-Are there any players out there who now play exclusively Dominion?
Why would I play anything else? You guys did a great job. Especially with DOTA2 coming out, you did a nice job of making LoL standout. Two thumbs up from this summoner


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Decorum

Senior Member

11-07-2011

I'm actually only waiting for the day where sweeping, concrete, solid balance changes are made, then I'll play it exclusively.

Things like hardcapping MS, outright nerfing some heroes on Dominion specifically (and we all know which ones), and tweaking the items just enough. Just glaring, topical, "oh look how unfun that is" things are all that, IMO, are holding dominion back.


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Isysar

Senior Member

11-07-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aliai View Post
I play casters primarily - supports and mages. Low base health/armor/MR/mobility + heavy cooldown dependency makes dominion very challenging for most of my characters.

It's fun, but I feel like I'm at a bit of an inherent disadvantage that's normally balanced out by the terrain of SR.
I fully agree with this statement as well. They just suck compared to the assassins and bruisers.


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Isysar

Senior Member

11-07-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wonton55 View Post
(From the perspective of a player who played about 30 Dominion games on release, and went back to SR)

Here was the deal-breaker for me:

In the end, it simply seemed to me that while SR was mainly a battle of tactics (Mid and late-game, 90% of fights are decided by positioning. Late-game, a single ace can decide the game, regardless of which team was in the lead prior to that), Dominion seemed to mainly be a battle of strategy. Certain team comps just seemed to be so incredibly strong that the only solution was not to counter them in-game, but to counter them with better bans/picks in your next game. Given that the games were shorter, it still kinda worked (If you don't ban <insert champion here> you only feel like a dumbass for 20 minutes, not 40), but I just didn't like the feeling of looking at the loading screen and ALREADY knowing that the other team had a 70-80% chance of winning the game.
This as well. Tactics > strategy imo.


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SoBeNirvana

Adjudicator

11-07-2011

-What are your impressions of the balance on Dominion? (If you're a serious player that's gearing up for competitive Dominion, I especially want to hear from you!)
There are certain outliers that need to be looked at (Heimerdinger, Rammus, Jax, Akali, Talon) but the majority of Champions are balanced. I will say that non-assassin mages and non-assassin ranged dps (ie, not Vayne) feel disproportionately weak to other classes of characters.

-What is your biggest pet peeve about Dominion?
Sorry, but I have two:

1) It is way too hard to counter hard carries since defensive items give you less and offensive items give you more thanks to the aura. This makes it really hard for anyone but Rammus to go pure defense, and really hard (much more hard than SR) to counter a fed carry.

2) Itemization as a whole for non-DPS is still sorely lacking. There really aren't any good dominion mage, tank, or support items.

-Are there any players out there who now play exclusively Dominion?
My friends and I basically only play Dominion now unless invited to Summoner's Rift by other friends.

-Thoughts from players who tried Dominion and feel like it just isn't their cup of tea. Are there any particular reasons that stand out? Fixable (wink wink) reasons?
This doesn't apply to me.