I want your Dominion thoughts and impressions!

First Riot Post
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Arblis

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Senior Member

11-07-2011

  • - What are your impressions of the balance on Dominion? (If you're a serious player that's gearing up for competitive Dominion, I especially want to hear from you!)
    Balance seems to be pretty good right now, but I wouldn't be surprised if somebody picked up an idea that I have not. Having a good distribution of Poke characters, Un-jumpable characters, and Brawly/Skirmishy champs on your team really does wonders. Both teams, winning or losing, should always be doing SOMETHING, which is really a wonderful way for design to be.
    I love the dynamic between character types, and how different types exist compared to those of Summoner's Rift!
    Poke characters like Ezreal can defend a heavily assaulted point near the enemy base, wear down foes at enemy-controlled points to allow a Brawler to come in and clean the place up, and can box in foes at their own point, wasting their time and effort as the rest of your team gets things done elsewhere.
    Brawlers/Skirmishers- AKA the Cleanup Crew- can bring down foes in their way and still have the health and resources to keep going forward, can set up roadblocks with their bodies, preventing the foe from assaulting or reinforcing distant points, and can lead enemies on a wild goose chase to the middle of nowhere as enemies desperately try and kill them so the brawler doesn't sneak up on squishier backline champs when they try to assault a point.
    Unjumpable champions can hold out against a weathered assault fairly well, and are the best candidate for a suicide distraction- taking them down often means everyone involved will be mortally wounded and forced to retreat even though they've won. Unjumpables make great bait or just stallers until a skirmisher can get there and clean it up, and they're phenomenally useful when your team is controlling more points than the foe.

    There are plenty of fancy tactics, and Dominion is one of the few online games I've played where running interception actually works.. provided your team Gets It.

    Oh, back to balance though, some champions are just ridiculous, since their balancing factor was "it's hard to get money for them" (I'm looking at you, Poppy). Anyone whose main weakness is "being denied bling" ends up not being hampered nearly as much by that, and thus being stronger, since they lose part of their trade-off.

    EDIT: A little more on the character types I mentioned earlier, since I forgot to include actual champ examples.
    Poker - Ezreal and Kennen are great examples, since they do pretty good damage, can skillshot people from safety, interrupting captures or enraging defenders, and have tools to get out of the way if retribution comes, keeping up a perpetual cycle of "Chased me off. NO YOU DIDNT! Chased me off. I'M BACK!"
    Brawler/Skirmisher - Tryndamere, Riven, and Graves are a few of many examples. They have some small-scale mobility to help them fight smart, enough damage to raise a few eyebrows, and are pretty scary... but in order to win the game, they have to be in the right part of the map at the right time. Whether that's intercepting, back-capping, or cleaning up a suicide bomber's mess is up to how the game is going. Harder to use well than you'd think.
    Unjumpable - Has some deterrent to keep you from ever wanting to attack them. Heimerdinger is a good example, though he has some specific weaknesses.. but anyone who isn't specifically good at killing him will take a nasty beating before they can wipe him out. (Rammus is another example, cause his damage improves with his tankiness. Fighting him at all is a big commitment in time and health). Graves even, has a bit of this trait. His smoke bomb lets him get quite a few free hits in if used well, and makes him much trickier to take down if you're stuck alone than, say, Caitlyn (ha!).
    Assassins didn't really get a mention because they are generally one of the above... but they do have handy tricks for taking down the tricky. Kassadin isn't too concerned about a little smoke bomb, you know?
    WHY AM I STILL WRITING I AM SO OFFTOPIC AAAAAAAH SOMEONE STOP ME
  • - What is your biggest pet peeve about Dominion?
    My biggest pet peeve is more with metagame and community ****, really. Come on. There aren't lanes, you should help where you're needed. The windmill is only as important as you MAKE it, it's not inherently stronger than other points.
    If there was a way for the gameplay to instill these into peoples' heads quicker, I'd be overjoyed. Really aughta get around to making that premade team...
    But really, that's just something that has to be given time. Just like you should bring a couple friends when ganking someone who's trying to get their Bluebuff, you should send more than one person to stop Heimerdinger from farting around on two different points, or send an extra person to intercept that Poker who's making life hell for the guy trying to finish channeling a capture.
  • - Are there any players out there who now play exclusively Dominion?
    I think it would be silly to exclusively play one or the other... that said, I've played at most seven games of SR since Dominion's release. I just plain enjoy Dominion more. It has fewer things that bug or bore me. I don't click the "Play" button and then go "wait, no, I don't really want to do that, screw it" anymore. I go in, play a few games, go whee.


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Nyx87

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Senior Member

11-07-2011

As someone who plays both Dom and SR i would like separate mastery pages and possibly separate rune pages so that I don't need to keep swapping them.

In terms of balance, certain champs just dominate due to the passive gold+exp. Rammus, Shaco, Heimerdinger, Yorick, Jax, Poppy, Irelia, and Akali to name a few are either banned or picked. Dom also shows bad design in certain champs like Jax and Poppy. The Dodge Mechanic Jax has and Poppys passive of "The more you kill me, the less you kill me" leaves very little incentive to even fight them.

In terms of items, casters kinda got the short end of the stick with just 1 new item, Hextech sweeper. Ad champs got Lightbringer, Sanguine Blade, and the new Bloodrazor. Think about why you guys put in the new Bloodrazor and Sanguine blade. Their counterparts were too much to farm up in such little time, and Bloodthirsters stacks could be lost. Now think about Rod of Ages. It takes a good 10 mins to fully stack, the soonest you could rush it is about the 5 min mark, that's if you didn't buy boots at all. So it fully stacks at 15 mins, and Dom games are estimated to last 20 mins. Enjoy the 5 mins of fully stacked RoA. More variety would be nice for casters and even tanks(warmogs could use a facelift).


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AstaorthX

Senior Member

11-07-2011

I think you should remove the scoring system and add in a system that keeps track of how long each player is within a certain range of the tower they are defending and a timer the keeps track of how long a team occupies more turrets than the other


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Ikruti

Senior Member

11-07-2011

-What are your impressions of the balance on Dominion? (If you're a serious player that's gearing up for competitive Dominion, I especially want to hear from you!)

I don't have champions that I feel are blatantly OP rather I have a number of champions who just suck the fun out of the game.

Rammus - Basically unkillable if you're AD and still pretty tough to deal with if you're AP. Combined with his speed means that basically he takes any point he wishes if there's only one champion defending it.

Shaco - Oddly enough I find him not that difficult to deal with. My biggest issue is that there are certain spots in the jungle where if he places a JitB in the brush, you'll trip it even if you don't go near the brush. I don't care if it's in the open where an Oracle's can spot it. However, if I'm walking along with an Oracle's, carefully choosing to skirt the brush and it STILL activates and kills me...ugh. Everything else I don't care about but the whole his JitBs can trigger from inside the brush even though you're outside the brush and have an Oracle's....yeah, almost rage worthy to me.

I can't really think of too many that make me quezy when I see the load screen but at least one deserves an honorable mention:

Jax - Honestly don't really think he's that huge a deal, most AP can burst him down. However his very late game is a bit overboard. I'm primarily a bit perturbed when I go out of my way not to auto attack him as a caster and after I use an ability it decides to auto attack and bam, stun proc -> dead.

-What is your biggest pet peeve about Dominion?

Seeing the same 15 or so champions every...single...game. At least 7 or so champions in every game is from that small list. Very tedious to deal with.

In a lot of fights, whomever has Exhaust available wins.

Backdooring is incredibly unfun to deal with. Not the everyone once in a while bd, but the Yi/Rammus/Eve/etc. with Move 5 boots, Priscilla's and 4 Zeals. Sure they're useless in a fight but now you can NEVER venture out because they'll zip in and cap before anyone can react. Oh joy oh joy, I love being the guy who has to sit at our mid all game long because they have a BDer....that's really entertaining...

-Are there any players out there who now play exclusively Dominion?

I don't play only Dominion because every now and then one of my friends will want SR for a change of pace, but when it's my choice, I only queue for Dominion. The reasons are probably what you hear all the time, I enjoy the shorter game times (though your recent changes have lengthened my games from a nice 20m to a lengthy 25m ), the fact that snowballing is a lot less prevalent and that it's always active.

It's funny, when I go back to SR, by the time the laning phase is over I'm thinking to myself, a Dominion game would already be over...personally I find last hitting to be an incredibly tedious and boring concept. I'm not bad at it per se, just don't find it fun.

P.S. Oh yeah...4v5 is almost a guaranteed loss. Even 1-2 mins of 4v5 can result in a 5 cap and a massive loss of points. Not sure if you can really do anything about it but yeah, a 4v5 sucks in SR, a 4v5 is a catastrophe in Dominion.

Also, I can't tell you how many times the enemy decided to ball up as a group of 4 and at that particular moment a quest pops with the node they're already mid way through capture. Maybe I'm missing something and the timing of quests is predictable but yeah, that sucks to lose a quest before it even starts.

And another issue is the towers themselves. I've had enemies win fights simply because they walk under the tower and then you can't click on them. That seems like an extremely cheesy thing to be able to do, win a fight simply because you can't click on the opponent due to bad geography.


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broslow

Member

11-07-2011

-What are your impressions of the balance on Dominion? (If you're a serious player that's gearing up for competitive Dominion, I especially want to hear from you!)
The snowballing mechanics allow champions like jax and akali to gain massive amounts of gold quickly. If the was a feature that slowed the gold gain on players with alot of kills/points/gold it might slow down there pubstomping 1v1 power.
-What is your biggest pet peeve about Dominion?
The lag, my lag is double in Dominion compared to SR, i enjoyed it greatly, but its gotten to the point where its almost unplayeble for me.

-Are there any players out there who now play exclusively Dominion?
No, mainly because of the lag


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ForgedLife

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Senior Member

11-07-2011

Yes I still play Classic mode every once in a while, but I mainly play dominion now.

Honestly, the number of overpowered champions has decreased from the beginning since the game has progressed, either due to the changes or simply due to people learning how to deal with them.

Right now, the two champions who still seem to be a bit overpowered are Rammus and Shaco. Shaco not so much in coordinated play, but the Tanky DPS build on Rammus, and the fact that he is naturally very fast with the powerball is a bit overpowered.

Overall, with my own dominion team, we have been able to counter all these champions, but Rammus and Shaco are just more difficult to counter because they require counter strategy, not counterpick.


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Ishmanian

Senior Member

11-07-2011

Been playing Dominion pretty much exclusively since it was released.

My main issues with it right now are itemization problems for champions with large mana costs (not sustained spamming, as morello's takes care of that with the buff to mana regen, but spell rotations that deplete their mana pool) having no option for mana & AP, since Archangel's and ROA require stacking.

I also find Warmogs & thornmail then building pure tank items incredibly probamatical to defeat with traditional builds on Dominion, it normally requires cheese builds like pure lifesteal, which is poor thanks to the reduced healing, the fact Sanguine blade is pretty bad and has a unique passive, and odyn's veil is a large investment for little return, the tacked on active being generally ineffective.

AFKers and DC'rs also guarentee a loss, so that needs DOTA levels of strictness, where you simply get placed into a different matchmaking system if you do it more than once or twice every 40 games.

Oh, and tanks have a disproportionately strong impact, being able to dish out very large amounts of damage and with scaling regen mostly ignore everything returned. Lifesteal and spellvamp being less effective, the most annoying dominion games I've had are when EVERYONE on the enemy team builds straight tank items, no matter who they are. (Kassadin with odyn's veil, thornmail, warmogs, and sunfire is impossibly annoying)


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Squidget

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Senior Member

11-07-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by VeigarTheHorrible View Post
-What are your impressions of the balance on Dominion? (If you're a serious player that's gearing up for competitive Dominion, I especially want to hear from you!)
As has been said, there are various champs who are problematic on Dominion. These tend to be champs who would be overpowered on SR were they not held back by a weak laning phase. Poppy, Blitz, and Shaco are big offenders here. Hypercarries (Jax, Ryze, Kog) are also a bit of an issue, but I think that will be solved with the changes that allow people to get a gold advantage through the early game.

The game can be rather snowbally in arranged 5s, mainly because of level advantages. The only reliable way to get an experience advantage on your opponent is to get champion kills, and that's unlikely to happen if their team ends up a level above yours. It's a bigger issue than SR because SR has lots of ways to get XP advantages (pushing waves, Baron, ect), while Dominion only really has killing people. You can't get back in the game by farming creeps, if you're behind you stay behind.

Quote:
-What is your biggest pet peeve about Dominion?
Quests feel very random and they create a lot of weird gameplay. The fact that there's no visual indicator of when or where a quest is going to appear is problematic. You have to time it in chat and there's no way to know what point it will be on. I understand that it's supposed to be a dynamic event for players to react too, but often it ends up being free points for one team or the other.

We've actually talked about letting enemy teams cap windmill for free when the quest timer is almost up, because you'll almost certainly get the quest if it's at Windmill. It's much harder for them to push on your mid than it is for you to push on Windmill. The random nature of quests seems not to create much gameplay, and what gameplay it does create is strange and unreliable (give up control points to increase your chances of the quest being in the right spot.)

One solution would be to make quests only spawn at the bottom two points. That would push the gameplay towards bottom instead of windmill every so often. If a team doesn't control their bottom point when the quest pops, just don't have a quest at that time

My second (lesser) peeve is that casters absolutely need CDR on Dominion (no blue buff/blue pot) and there aren't any good CDR options besides Ionian boots. You need Deathcap to kill people and Spell Vamp to survive/sustain, so at best you'd be getting A Morello's/DFG as your third item, which is way too late in the game. I think a lot of caster problems in Dominion would be solved if there were a Hextech Revolver upgrade that gave up WoTA's aura component for some CDR.

Quote:
-Are there any players out there who now play exclusively Dominion?
I play almost exclusively arranged 5s Dominion draft these days. SR feels very slow after playing Dominion and getting decent at it.

Dominion solo queue is tricky because making good decisions requires much tighter minute-to-minute team coordination than SR. Obviously SR has moments of heavy team coordination, but in Dominion you need to constantly be sending the right people to the right places. I think solo queue in SR works better because it's easier to be a 'hero' and carry your team, while Dominion is more about sending the right people to the right places at the right times. Most people who are serious about solo queue seem to carry exclusively from bottom lane, but that doesn't seem like a sustainable state of affairs.


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Arance

Senior Member

11-07-2011

First off, I play Dominion (almost) exclusively now, and the respawn variance reduction you introduced last patch is wonderful, Dominion feels so much better without seeing the losing team get a free late game advantage that can't be countered. It feels like that is in the right place now, so thank you for it.

Balance for Dominion, however, feels really bad. Emphasis on feels, because while there is a good dozen or so champs that are head and shoulders above the rest, it can often feel like balance is worse than it probably is. I doubt it is impossible to shake this feeling, even though it sucks for the player, but I also think it's going to be impossible for you guys to have a properly balanced dominion without dominion-specific champion changes.

Biggest peeve is easily having my champion suddenly start to channel a tower while I'm trying to fight, and at times having the champ instantly try to channel then cancel it when I actually am trying to cap the tower. It happens about 3-5 times a game and is really frustrating when it causes you to lose a close fight.


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RalphWaldo

Senior Member

11-07-2011

1) I think Dominion is pretty well balanced. I do, however, think there should be map specific tuning for champion skills. For example, Rammus' powerball stacks multiplicatively (I think?) right now. On SR that's not a huge deal, but with the speed shrines on CS it makes him a must ban. As an example of map specific tuning, I would make it additive on CS and multiplicative on SR. Similar things could be done with cooldowns (champs with long cooldown ults seem to be a bit weaker), etc.

2) I have two biggest issues with Dominion. First, if you right click to cap a point and it becomes neutralized in the mean time, your command gets canceled and you don't start capping. Second, no ranked Dominion yet.

3) I only play Dominion. I like the fact that you are instantly fighting and basically don't stop the entire time. I can't imagine ever farming creeps on SR again.