Bot Lane Counter-Pick List

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monkeyswinkle

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Member

11-06-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anniie View Post
What do you all think about Fiddle countering Yorick bottom? His health keeps going down, yours keeps going up. Fast. One bad thing is, Fiddle is terrible at pushing minions especially when you aren't leveling Dark Wind.
From the few times I have played Yorick and faced a Fiddle, the determining factor in our fights was the Terrify. If I had a Tenacity item or QSS, then I won. If not, that fear kept me held up long enough for Fiddle to kill me. I don't think Fiddle was able to counterpush me at all though. This was just in a few duels. I'm also not sure if this is the norm, or just unique to my experience.

I have a hard time with Singed bottom when I play Yorick, to be honest. He's the one I groan about when I see him down there. Again, I'm not sure if that is the norm, or just me. One possible reason is that I do not build Tear/Manamune, rushing Trinity and building tanky instead. So, I would run myself out of mana trying to put any damage on Singed since I did not want to chase him around. He was also able to neutralize my push pretty well.

P.S. This is a great thread idea, btw.


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Vydelar

Senior Member

11-06-2011

You should put a notice on Nasus - Be mindful where you step, for being anywhere near your minions will let him take a large chunk of health off you with Spirit Fire. Ideally you want to be fighting in front of the minions, and buy some mr to counter Spirit Fire. If you can't keep him away from the minions, he will melt the wave without problems.

As a Nasus bot player, my builds are heavily E centric, building AP/CDR/Tank to maximize his power through fast spam, and just edge slicing the opponent with max cdr E (7.2 seconds) till they go away. Also Nasus is one of the strongest pushers in dominion when built with some AP. I've been in games where the bottom was swapped twice because they didn't have what it takes to keep me from melting minions.

Also, a notice for Dominion Bottom Lane players. Your choices of summoners are absurdly limited. If you don't take Promote, you have weakened your offense, and if you don't have promote or garrison, you might as well just sit in the fountain if the opponent has promote. Lately, I've been going just Promote/Garrison, which makes me weaker to ganks and potential backdoors, but if you can't win the lane, your other summoner spells are worthless in the job anyway.

Edit: Also to the OP, I would mark Kayle as someone that potentially should go top if anyone is better. Yes, Kayle has some of the qualities of being a good bottom champion, but not enough, and you lose the ability to Ult teammates guarding/attacking a point.


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aim1essgun

Senior Member

11-06-2011

Any thoughts on Talon bot? Just saw him in a game for the first time, he completely and utterly wrecked our Ryze, and I can imagine it might be the same vs a lot of other AP casters.


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Mailius

Senior Member

11-06-2011

Interesting idea, I don't think the list is particularly accurate though overall. Like Ryze counters most champions on the list (but isn't listed on them), and Sivir gets countered, she isn't a counter to anyone of concern. Urgot also counters most of the champions on the list, but isn't even listed as a normal bot.

Also, malz isn't countered by a champion, he's countered by an item. If you have a QSS off cooldown, you win.

In response to the person above me, Rune Prison has a slightly longer range than Talon's gap closer. Basically Ryze should get free harassment if Talon tries to attack then back off unless Talon is low enough to kill.


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pewpewsie

Junior Member

11-06-2011

i have seen a few anivia players do very well bottom lane. the competent ones seem to be able to just hold their bottom tower until they hit lvl 6. once the bird gets their ultimate, they will be pushing the opponents bottom and unless the other team sends someone to help they will lose it.

i haven't seen a good anivia against yorik so i can't comment on that particular matchup.


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monkeyswinkle

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11-06-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by pewpewsie View Post
i have seen a few anivia players do very well bottom lane. the competent ones seem to be able to just hold their bottom tower until they hit lvl 6. once the bird gets their ultimate, they will be pushing the opponents bottom and unless the other team sends someone to help they will lose it.

i haven't seen a good anivia against yorik so i can't comment on that particular matchup.
I've had one or two games with that matchup. In one I can think of off the top of my head, Anivia was able to stop my push pretty hard post-6, but unable to push back. Pre-6, I was able to push easily and then the rest of the match was mostly played out around her tower, which I had a hard time actually taking once she got her ult. I found myself going to extremes to stay away from her and her range, or fully committing to kill her. If I could reach her, she was done. Usually, that was after she missed a stun and I managed to land a slow. The wall was pretty annoying once I pushed past the mid-lane health relic. She used it once or twice to bait me into attacking her, then trapping me with a hidden teammate nearby.

It would be interesting to see more of that matchup played by good players. My game was probably in the "average" skill range.


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clickbang

Senior Member

11-06-2011

As someone who has played something around 200 dominion games
Mostly bot

Im finding Galio is a noteworthy choice that counters a good portion of common picks with ease
Heimer... Ryze... Basically any of the ap champs on this list. Mao is a constant tug o war but you can force his hand late game with pokes and quickly pushing minion waves out.


As for counters, Yorick becomes a hassle quick, generally whoever the better player is will win the lane or bottom just becomes a stalemate without any ganks
Hard counters for galio consist of Sivir,Graves,Talon, Noc. Mostly any AD with a gap closer or decent range forcing him to lose a big part of his early game dominance and sustain by building armor. Exploit Galio bearly before he ranks his shield up and gets CDR. Also move around him so he can't easily nail gust


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Necks

Senior Member

11-06-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mailius View Post
Urgot also counters most of the champions on the list, but isn't even listed as a normal bot.
Urgot's damage is zero if you can't land grenades, and grenades are a lot harder to land than it looks.

His pushing power is zero, too. If Urgot cannot outright kill the enemy bottom champion, he gets overwhelmed by minion pushing. The ultimate counter to Urgot: dodge his grenade, push minions hard. It's not that difficult to shut him down, and almost any champion can do it.

I don't think Urgot is a reliable bottom pick, even if he has the potential. It takes a very skilled Urgot player to make him work. I'd much rather have a dependable choice like Yorick bottom.


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Narogsun

Senior Member

11-06-2011

singed?


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Madra

Senior Member

11-06-2011

Maokai is much better supporting his team than camping bottom. Holding windmill top with the help of his ultimate is much more useful than throwing a sapling into a pack of creeps every 15 seconds.