Playing for Personal Score Vs. Playing for Win

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NetherGate

Senior Member

11-05-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by MacDizel View Post
wow~ I must say this is one of the best most thought out posts I've read in years. (35 years gaming 18 yrs online) That being said I would suggest this thread be "stickied" just for a thought provoking/ suggested learning. I myself only play dominion... I play as alistar a very humbling toon to play... and I do it because I CAN change the games outcome. I have enough power to hurt you and enough ability to not just take you off YOUR turret , but to take it from you. However most often my k/d ratio is poor (to many dont understand dom imo) but I win a heck a lot more than I lose . I am a noob here (35-40 days playing league of legends .. 330+ dominion wins though.)
Thank you very much dude, we must play together sometime, I love playing with a good alistair.


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NetherGate

Senior Member

11-05-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by KinTantee View Post
Yeah I also have to agree here with the solo team mate blaming losing on the #####y team. I have seen this guy run in and out of combat and yet blame everyone else for there lack of team ability. And they will call you out for being the snail and being called out like that makes your team morale go down. I play Caitlyn and I can hold a point and push you to yours easily 1 v 1 but, I am usually 3 v 1 and lose my point. Even though I ping the map and alert my team to either take another of theirs during the 3 v 1 or come help. And if they do neither I can walk away 3rd place at least and still be blamed for the short comings of the team. For losing my point to a 3 v 1.

I think its sad that a score who## will come in and blow apart a team like that because he cant get his kills to a positive number. But, I have won many with the whole team in negative k/d ratio and lost with most of the team in super positive k/d's. The scoring needs to be reworked with less points on the kill and more on the defend and capture side.

Great Post.
Thank you very much.


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ticklishmusic

Junior Member

11-05-2011

Well, I guess this kind of describes the way I play lol. First off, I'm kind of a noob (I only play around 2 or 3 games a day, not even every day of the week), so I don't know if this holds true at higher skill levels.

I usually play Heimer. What I've found is that he can't really push bottom alone, but he's really **** good at holding bottom by himself, even against 3+ heroes (esp if you have Garrison and Hourglass). Anyways, I basically sit on the bottom and middle push too far. Yeah, so basically super conservative play.

Thing is, while I don't grab much score (just point defense, minion kills and the odd kill or cap), I take advantage of what you call agro dodgers. Some guy on the other team is almost guaranteed to look at the bottom and think "Hmm, Heimer is sitting in the middle. Lemme go gank him with the guy on the bottom." And he comes. Sometimes I'll die, more often than not I won't. But either way its a win, because I'm making it a 4v3 for the top half of the map, and I can count on my team to win that at least. If its even more, I'll run like a ***** to my tower, drop my turrets and it's even better.

I won't get a very good score but hey, at least my team wins!


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geeca

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Member

11-05-2011

I used to chase score and be first every single game. Now I push and distract (increasing W:L) but for some reason I cannot pull higher than 3rd. There is truth in your sea of words.


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NetherGate

Senior Member

11-06-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by ticklishmusic View Post
Well, I guess this kind of describes the way I play lol. First off, I'm kind of a noob (I only play around 2 or 3 games a day, not even every day of the week), so I don't know if this holds true at higher skill levels.

I usually play Heimer. What I've found is that he can't really push bottom alone, but he's really **** good at holding bottom by himself, even against 3+ heroes (esp if you have Garrison and Hourglass). Anyways, I basically sit on the bottom and middle push too far. Yeah, so basically super conservative play.

Thing is, while I don't grab much score (just point defense, minion kills and the odd kill or cap), I take advantage of what you call agro dodgers. Some guy on the other team is almost guaranteed to look at the bottom and think "Hmm, Heimer is sitting in the middle. Lemme go gank him with the guy on the bottom." And he comes. Sometimes I'll die, more often than not I won't. But either way its a win, because I'm making it a 4v3 for the top half of the map, and I can count on my team to win that at least. If its even more, I'll run like a ***** to my tower, drop my turrets and it's even better.

I won't get a very good score but hey, at least my team wins!
Hi man, I appreciate that you try to take advantage of the other teams agro dodgers.... But the thing is that I think I may not have conveyed it clearly. Thats why I wrote so much, its a simple concept thats hard to explain. I pasted below a paragraph out of the post, please read again.

"Let me back up for a minute and cover a concept that unfortunately is not understood by many players. Its 5v5. You have a counterpart on the other team. An opposite player you are responsible for. Who that player is will vary throughout the game, but its simply a number of opponents, being ONE of them, because you yourself control one champ in a 5v5 game and if you are not keeping that player busy, your team is 4v5. Ever played with an afk in dom? Ive won those, but its extremely rare. So you are simply expected to in someway keep your counterpart busy CONSTANTLY or as close to it as humanly possible. This protects your team mates. This is everything. "

Now, unfortunately it sounds like you were playing as an agro dodger unknowingly. And in fact, during the time that you are being attacked, the opponent is actually not dodging agro.

I hear what you are saying about not wanting to push and die, (but I play a mean Heimer, and he can push like a beast, and I can help you with that). You see, when you are sitting on the turret, and there is not enemy in sight, there are 5 opponents top fighting 4 of your team mates. Thats just plain not good. Now if you push hard enough, one of them will be forced to stay bot to defend, then on top they are 4v4, and at least they have a fair shot up there. You dont have to take the turret, just push hard enough to pose the threat that if they leave bot, they will lose it. And if they do leave bot, well.... take it!

Now I find that 1v2 with heimer is very bad unless he is under a turret (which is very good), so thats why your team mates need to do the same for you as you push out. Hence, an agro dodging team mate will leave them a free ganker to kill you.

One place that I WOULD recommend camping at is under the opponents bot turrets after you take it. I can usually hold it 1v2 there just fine, if not get a kill in doing so. And the other team really doesnt like you to have that turret, and they come running to it like moths to a flame, which you want them to do. Watch the minimap while you are defending that spot and see for yourself how the top turrets start turning green. Why? Because your team now outnumbers them as long as 2 of them are trying to fight you there, which they usually are. One of them has NO chance to take it from you. (You can also harass them while the enter the map via the bottom route. U will draw them to attack you, and draw their agro, or send them off elsewhere on the map hurting.)

Now then, you dont want a team mate helping you to defend that spot at all, because that takes away from your player ratio advantage up top. You WANT the opponents to send 2 against you there. Ok? When you hold that turret, you pretty much have secured 2 turrets (both bot ones) because they are almost always drawn to attack the near one first. That means that you are solely holding 40% of the turrets yourself, and its up to your team to constantly scramble to hold one or more of the top 3 turrets, which should be very easy. Eventually the other team will realize that they are screwed if they dont take that turret from you, and you will be 1v3 and eventually fall, this is fine, go down with the ship without your team mates help. Sustain the defense and the fight as long as you possible can. You have great tools to do this, but you will fall. During that fight, your team is 4v2 elsewhere on the map! So basically by the time you fall, you should pretty much have all 4 of the other turrets on the map because it was sooo costly of them to do it. Thats triple agro. Thats why its beast.

Controlling agro is all about doing anything and everything you can to keep the opponenents off of your buddies.

An offputting amount of text there again I suppose, but these is pearls man! Anyway, let me know if you want help with your heimer build.


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NetherGate

Senior Member

11-06-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by MacDizel View Post
wow~ I must say this is one of the best most thought out posts I've read in years. (35 years gaming 18 yrs online) That being said I would suggest this thread be "stickied" just for a thought provoking/ suggested learning. I myself only play dominion... I play as alistar a very humbling toon to play... and I do it because I CAN change the games outcome. I have enough power to hurt you and enough ability to not just take you off YOUR turret , but to take it from you. However most often my k/d ratio is poor (to many dont understand dom imo) but I win a heck a lot more than I lose . I am a noob here (35-40 days playing league of legends .. 330+ dominion wins though.)
What do you mean by "stickied", and how do I do that?


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Ignistos

Junior Member

11-06-2011

Very good post man, couldn't agree more.


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Knu5e

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Junior Member

11-06-2011

Hold on. Let me download this post on my Kindle and I'll get back to you.


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Aikimiller

Senior Member

11-07-2011

Interesting post, that covers an aspect of gameplay that isn't frequently considdered, but most competent players understand.

In Dominion, Time is your most valuable resource. That's why you always feel like you're in a rush when shopping. That's why mobility items are So. Friggin. Good.

Killing opponents is an extremely valuable thing because it denies the opponents time. This is why on most teams you really, really want a roaming assassin. However, you also don't want people going after kills at the expense of Capture Time, which a lot of people do. And if a team isn't effectively converting a time advantage into a capture advantage, then they're doing something wrong.

And so yes, playing for personal score is incorrect. You should be playing for Captured time, and having a coherent strategy as a team as to how to get it is, overall, the most important thing in Dominion. Which is why I can't wait for some high profile dominion tourneys- because that's the only way different strategies are going to become popular.


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Ahlen

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Senior Member

11-07-2011

Are there really people that play for personal score?


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