Welcome to the Forum Archive!

Years of conversation fill a ton of digital pages, and we've kept all of it accessible to browse or copy over. Whether you're looking for reveal articles for older champions, or the first time that Rammus rolled into an "OK" thread, or anything in between, you can find it here. When you're finished, check out the boards to join in the latest League of Legends discussions.

GO TO BOARDS


Priscilla's Needs to Go

Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Nialeuth

Senior Member

11-08-2011

Quote:
lbgsloan:
Using Rammus in blind pick does not count for any meaningful discussion.

Anyhow, dedicated ninja-cappers I've seen generally lose their team the game 9 times out of 10. It works against stupid teams, that is all. A strategic ninja-cap wins games, but doing it the entire game is usually a loss for whoever's team they are on.


It's still a valid strategy and works against some teams (those with low mobility, for instance). Granted, it needs organization, but it's not fair to completely obliterate an entirely plausible strategy just because some people mess it up.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

NationalKid

Senior Member

11-08-2011

Quote:
Nialeuth:
It's still a valid strategy and works against some teams (those with low mobility, for instance). Granted, it needs organization, but it's not fair to completely obliterate an entirely plausible strategy just because some people mess it up.


Riot does that a lot. They didnt see the post where 65% of the community said that "Priscilla's is just fine the way it is".


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Elealar

Senior Member

11-08-2011

Quote:
Nialeuth:
It's still a valid strategy and works against some teams (those with low mobility, for instance). Granted, it needs organization, but it's not fair to completely obliterate an entirely plausible strategy just because some people mess it up.


The strategy isn't being "obliterated" as you put it. You can still use it strategically just fine. You just don't need to build for it, ergo you're more useful outside the niché you're trying to carve for yourself too. Whee!

A dedicated ninja capper is only ever as useful as the weakest champion in the enemy team since it only takes one guy running around to block the ninja capper from ever doing anything. And that's a ninja capper performing at her best.


The big change is that there'll be less random losses like this with two guys on your team building to "backdoor" meaning you can never win a fight and thus never control any point enemy has capped and is defending, and need to 3v4-3v5 to actually ever even defend a point:


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

NationalKid

Senior Member

11-08-2011

Quote:
Elealar:
The strategy isn't being "obliterated" as you put it. You can still use it strategically just fine. You just don't need to build for it, ergo you're more useful outside the niché you're trying to carve for yourself too. Whee!

A dedicated ninja capper is only ever as useful as the weakest champion in the enemy team since it only takes one guy running around to block the ninja capper from ever doing anything. And that's a ninja capper performing at her best.


The big change is that there'll be less random losses like this with two guys on your team building to "backdoor" meaning you can never win a fight and thus never control any point enemy has capped and is defending:


First, a single game doesnt prove anything, so didnt understand why the print.

Second, like i said at this Thread already, it takes at least two to stop a decent shaco when hes ninja capping since he has too many ways to run away safely and prevent u from recapping. They changed Dominion too much to make is slower already. Removing PB will make it even worse. Ppl who wants a slow game should go back to SR.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Elealar

Senior Member

11-08-2011

Quote:
NationalKid:
First, a single game doesnt prove anything, so didnt understand why the print.


To illustrate a point; that isn't the only game like that. I challenge you to find/play any game ever where a team with two ninja cappers has won a game in decent Elo (talking at least positive win/loss here) and post a screenshot of it. Otherwise I'm going to assume that's never happened and will never happen, which kind of serves to reinforce my point that in decent Elo, Priscilla's existence causes some people to inadvertently screw their teams over by building what they think is a solid build but actually sucks; it's a trap item of sorts in higher levels of play.

Quote:
NationalKid:
Second, like i said at this Thread already, it takes at least two to stop a decent shaco when hes ninja capping since he has too many ways to run away safely and prevent u from recapping. They changed Dominion too much to make is slower already. Removing PB will make it even worse. Ppl who wants a slow game should go back to SR.


No, it doesn't take two people to stop Shaco from ninja capping. It might take two to recapture if he does manage a ninja cap but it's fully possible to ensure he never ever does it. Also, you don't need Priscilla's. Constant fighting makes the game fast-paced, not ninja capping. Games actually last longer with captures that can't be held since that's a time where the currently leading team isn't getting points. So if you want short games, you should be happy for this change.

Of course, it seems you aren't going to actually listen to any arguments so I don't see why I'd bother even typing with you. Think what you will. You'll see your fears are unwarranted soon enough.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Ansre

Senior Member

11-08-2011

Quote:
NationalKid:
Plz dont eliminate priscilla's. Itll kill the ninja cappers and wipe out half of the fun on dominion.
Learning to cap without it is fun, whether it's having to double channel, coordinating a creep wave with the cap or simply correctly judging that you have enough time to cap it and you're not better off doing something else.

Though really you should just be capping easily because your opponents are waiting to respawn.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Nialeuth

Senior Member

11-08-2011

Quote:
Elealar:
...Summoner's Rift has split push teams, poke teams, AOE teams, full tanky DPS teams and a dozen viable lane setups with various roamer/jungler setups & lane setups. Exactly what is this strategy that rules them all? "Destroy the enemy Nexus"? 'cause that's pretty **** generic far as strategy goes.

Removing Priscilla's won't make backcapping unviable. It just makes less people make the foolish decision of dedicating their build to it. Good teams can still utilize backcapping as a peel maneuver and bad teams will still be just as weak to someone running around taking their points.

Just, in the latter case the bad team will have a bit more of a chance and the good teams won't lose games 'cause their Shaco wasted gold on Priscilla's instead of useful items (though they'll still stack Zeals and lose anyways but that's less of an issue).


Again, you can backcap without Priscilla's. It's actually better since then you can kill 1 defender and then backcap the point instead of being FUBARd as soon as you end up in a fight.


Since I began playing (a little more than a year ago), SR has ALWAYS had a dominant strategy, a strategy that was considered an insta-win for the team using it unless the other team was using it too. They come and go, but they're always there. Heal/poke, AoE, mass-tanky-DPS; to the very least, not having a jungler in your team nowadays is considered pretty much just stupid. Of course there were exceptions, but usually that only happened if the team screwed up :P

That's the reason why I stopped playing SR as soon as Dominion came out. I was tired of the current setup - tanky DPS top, AP carry mid, AD carry + support bot, jungler. Before that, I was tired of having the team with more tanky DPSers on their side win. Before that, I was tired of... well, you get the point.

I do realize you can backcap without Priscilla's. However, the removal of Priscilla, added to the other changes Riot recently made (and still intends to make, from what I've heard), is slowly taking a lot from the fast-paced, dynamic aspect they promised.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

NationalKid

Senior Member

11-08-2011

Quote:
Elealar:
To illustrate a point; that isn't the only game like that. I challenge you to find/play any game ever where a team with two ninja cappers has won a game in decent Elo (talking at least positive win/loss here) and post a screenshot of it. Otherwise I'm going to assume that's never happened and will never happen, which kind of serves to reinforce my point that in decent Elo, Priscilla's existence causes some people to inadvertently screw their teams over by building what they think is a solid build but actually sucks; it's a trap item of sorts in higher levels of play.



No, it doesn't take two people to stop Shaco from ninja capping. It might take two to recapture if he does manage a ninja cap but it's fully possible to ensure he never ever does it. Also, you don't need Priscilla's. Constant fighting makes the game fast-paced, not ninja capping. Games actually last longer with captures that can't be held since that's a time where the currently leading team isn't getting points. So if you want short games, you should be happy for this change.

Of course, it seems you aren't going to actually listen to any arguments so I don't see why I'd bother even typing with you. Think what you will. You'll see your fears are unwarranted soon enough.


A single example doesnt prove anything. Statistics in other hand does. And most part af the community agree PB is ok just the way it is. Just take a look at the forum instead of waste your time posting random ss.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Nialeuth

Senior Member

11-08-2011

Quote:
Elealar:
The strategy isn't being "obliterated" as you put it. You can still use it strategically just fine. You just don't need to build for it, ergo you're more useful outside the niché you're trying to carve for yourself too. Whee!

A dedicated ninja capper is only ever as useful as the weakest champion in the enemy team since it only takes one guy running around to block the ninja capper from ever doing anything. And that's a ninja capper performing at her best.


The big change is that there'll be less random losses like this with two guys on your team building to "backdoor" meaning you can never win a fight and thus never control any point enemy has capped and is defending, and need to 3v4-3v5 to actually ever even defend a point:


What if I want to build for it?

I don't mean on solo queue, of course. Let's face it, solo queue is full of morons. Just today I had a Kassadin on my team you wouldn't believe... but I digress.

My point is, if I have a 5-man premade, and they are okay with me picking Teemo, and building Mobility+Priscilla's, and running around the map like a little ***** capping/neutralizing the enemy points, I should be allowed to.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Elealar

Senior Member

11-08-2011

Quote:
Nialeuth:
What if I want to build for it?

I don't mean on solo queue, of course. Let's face it, solo queue is full of morons. Just today I had a Kassadin on my team you wouldn't believe... but I digress.

My point is, if I have a 5-man premade, and they are okay with me picking Teemo, and building Mobility+Priscilla's, and running around the map like a little ***** capping/neutralizing the enemy points, I should be allowed to.


Eh, logical expansion of that logic is that there should be an item for everything. Like, faster respawn time item and longer attack range item and faster quest generation item and anything you so desire. I don't think "I want to do X so I should be allowed to" is a reasonable argument.

The primary argument (used in this thread) against it though is that it creates unfun gameplay; that is, backcapping is too annoying to play against for weaker teams and too annoying to play with against stronger teams. The big question that should determine whether the item should or should not exist, then, is whether Priscilla's promotes more fun or anti-fun. The conclusion of this thread seems to be that more people consider it anti-fun than fun, which is a decent grounds for its removal.

I really don't think it strategically monotonizes the teams. Arranged teams use a wider variety of strategies on SR too; it's just Solo Queue that's set in one way to play. When you look at tournaments, some teams run solo bot with a roamer and AD mid or top instead, for instance. Not everyone runs 1/1/2. And some teams run 2 in mid or top and there's tons of lane swaps. It's just the nature of non-organized play to stagnate into some simple patterns that all players can follow. It's not because those are the only ways to play, just that's what everyone is familiar with. Dominion will likely end up the same; it's rare enough that randoms let me do double jungle or something like that on SR; it'll be rare enough that pubs will do anything strategically interesting on Dominion as well.