Personal score as a replacement to ELO

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mdigibou

Senior Member

11-03-2011

<wallotext>
I feel that the current ELO system used to determine "your" position in the ladder is broken for solo queue. The reason:
When you win, it's not your fault
When you lose, it's not your fault

Your success on the ladder is more based upon the performance of 4 other players than any individual single carry. Im sure many players have experienced games where they single handedly carried a game but those are few and far between. In my experience of over 1500 games (not counting ranked) I can safely say it was MY fault we won a game, maybe 100 of those games, TOPS. Other players contribute just as much as me in a good majority of my wins. I feel that bad play is not punished enough on the ladder, and good play is not rewarded enough.

The solution? Personal score. Very similiar to the dominion scoring system (although much more advanced, as opposed to their simplified system). Please note that somewhere in the thread graveyard, I had a post on just such a thing even before dominion came out, but I very much can't be bothered to dig for proof.

This sytem would require serious tweaking, time, and ironing out, but i believe it is much more sophisticated and thorough for rewarding good play than ELO.

HOW IT WORKS:
When you do a good action, you get points. When you do a bad action, you lose points. Over the course of ~15 games your end-game score is averaged and your average score determines your "elo" or ranking so to speak.

POINTS REWARDED FOR BENEFICIAL ACTIONS:
kills, assists -> Worth the same # of points.
Creep score -> either individual creeps worth points, or certain milestones of cs worth points
wards/map awareness -> wards detecting an enemy, and clairvoyance detecting an enemy grant points
tower damage -> not tower kills, that would be silly as most tower kills are wasted on minions
neutral creep buffs -> points rewarded for receiving neutral creep buffs. This means if you kill someone with blue, and get it? BONUS! in addition, this gives the jungler the ability to keep up with solo lane cs for points
neutral creep buff assists -> if you begin attacking blue, and then give it to your mid, your mid receives the buff score, and you receive a similiar score for buff assist. This also implies bonus points in teamfights for everyone focus firing the enemy who has the jungle buffs. In addition, baron buff would necesarily be worth a vast amount of creep score making attaining it a huge game goal (which is SHOULD be in every game).
Beneficial spell buffs -> Play support? get points for shielding your ally! (this one would require the most tweaking to determine the proper way and amount of points to award)
Tower defense -> Kill an enemy tower dive, gain bonus pts.
Interupting enemy channels -> high skill plays rewarded
getting dragon -> everyone who was present to hit dragon gets the points. This would ideally be worth as many points as an ace because of the gold advantage gained by the team (it could be argued that if one person can solo dragon, while rest push, they should receive bonus too, this is a viable arguement and is part of the testing process)
*Credit to CPT Munchies for thinking about this one* Killing an enemy ward -> The game doesn't currently track wards as creeps or grant CS, so these should give additional bonuses much greater than that of an individual creep.


LOSE POINTS FOR STUPID MOVES
Dying -> lose points for every death.
Getting killed by a tower -> lose extra points for getting killed by a tower.
Losing the game -> obviously if your team lost you must be the most awful player ever. No but seriously, either the winning team should be given a small bonus, or the losing team take a penalty. Im more inclined to the latter. The penalty would have to be small or percentage based, but existent to deter players from trying to max their personal score at the deteriment to their team (which would be difficult given the number of points/bonuses available for team-based actions).
dying with buffs -> extra points lost for dying with a jungle buff (not baron). You gave that **** to an enemy, what a waste.
dying to a jungle creep -> very large penalty or points cut. There is no reason ever you should die to a jungle creep. If you can think of one that makes sense, post, but be warned it wont end well for your ego
Giving up first blood -> Small penalty for this, as sometimes you just cant help it when you get outplayed, but a penalty makes sense as it puts the enemy team pretty far ahead early game.
Dying by yourself -> whether wandering late game or soloing early, dying when you are by yourself is an additional penalty as late game, it can cost you the game, and early game it puts your lane much farther behind. small penalty.
Time in fountain -> the longer you spend at fountain AFTER 5 minutes is an additional penalty for afk players. (this could be modified to time standing still, after a certain time limit{minutes not seconds}, if a player hasn't moved, begin subtracting points)

I'm aware that most of these are penalties revolving around dying, which is basically the only dumb thing you can do besides pushing a lane (which leads to dying usually...by the way)


if you can think of anything I haven't, please let me know. The easiest answers are often right in front of you, if you are asking about how support/tanks get points. In addition this score is not viewable in-game. It is calculated by the stats page afterwards to prevent people from knowing what their score is and acting haughty about it.

thoughts, ideas, suggestions? Intelligent discussion please


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Senior Member

11-03-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by mdigibou View Post
LOSE POINTS FOR STUPID MOVES
Getting killed by a tower -> lose extra points for getting killed by a tower.
Preventing the enemy from getting a kill by red pilling is not a stupid move. It is done all the time to correct horrible positioning in all elos and tournaments.


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mdigibou

Senior Member

11-03-2011

True enough. I can't imagine a simple enough system to determine when thats explicitly a bad idea.

Although I can honestly say i've never seen someone get killed by a tower and it be a good thing. Usually itll be someone tower diving too deep and the enemy doesnt turn to auto attack them once.


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Senior Member

11-03-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by mdigibou View Post
LOSE POINTS FOR STUPID MOVES
Time in fountain -> the longer you spend at fountain AFTER 5 minutes is an additional penalty for afk players. (this could be modified to time standing still, after a certain time limit{minutes not seconds}, if a player hasn't moved, begin subtracting points)
it should be where they haven't dealt or taken damage in that time because I have known many afkers who click around in the spawn to not get the leaver penalty.


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Spooksta

Junior Member

11-03-2011

Win/Loss is the best system for almost any game. I have played lots of games with this system, and it always turns out the win/loss is a better system. There is sooooo much in the game you cant count for with personal score.


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mdigibou

Senior Member

11-03-2011

im not sure if thats a better system ashqelon? Although i see the merit of your claim.

spooksta. you're actually just wrong, i have provided examples why other than just "it always turns out". Please bring logical reasoning other than "in my experience". Provide facts, argue based on evidence of the sample size greater than self.

What in a game can you not count for with personal score?


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IS1f48700f529fbcca97996

Senior Member

11-03-2011

Just what I was hoping you were going to post.
There should be several factors added additionally, which you've already stated, but I'll add suggestions to this system.

Edit:
Fog of War
Many of the factors f.ex. under "Sight Wards" are also for the others, but instead of repeating the same factors, every factor is taken into account for the item/spell below.

Sight Wards:
■ Placing out a ward.
■ Reveals an opponent.
■ Ping the opponent.

Vision Wards:
■ Reveals another ward.
■ Reveals a stealthed opponent.

Wriggle's Lantern:
■ Buffs attacking team mates.*

Clairvoyance:
■ Reveals opponent with Smite.*

* Only for that item/spell.


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redmaw226

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Senior Member

11-03-2011

mdigibou, do you intend for your rules to be applied independently each give/decreasing score by a fixed amount or dependently where one might give much larger/smaller score based on the result of other rules? Either way would be a balancing nightmare though in my opinion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spooksta View Post
Win/Loss is the best system for almost any game. I have played lots of games with this system, and it always turns out the win/loss is a better system. There is sooooo much in the game you cant count for with personal score.
W/L is actually worse than even a not so good personal score system because like you said there's so many factors in a game even if you do really well you can still easily lose the match.


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mdigibou

Senior Member

11-03-2011

I intend for this system to be implemented as quickly as possible using things ALREADY tracked in game. Everything that gives points in my system is already tracked by the game whether you know it or not. Unfortunately cpt munchies, alot of these would require alot of work, although they are excellent considerations to adjust the value of the map awareness points. The original intent of this points award would be quite small, as a penalty for failure of map awareness is usually directly a loss, or deaths.

Ill keep track of these additional ideas just in case this thread gets any attention from the reds.

Killing an enemy ward should award points, you are correct. I will add that to the original post.


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IS1f48700f529fbcca97996

Senior Member

11-03-2011

Ah, I see, makes sense. At least it's a good starting point.


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