Yorick and Ryze #1 and #2 Champs in Dom

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brainlizard

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Senior Member

10-31-2011

I'll admit it: I play all of the tier 1 dom champs. Call me a tryhard Having quite a few wins will all of them, I can say with confidence that IMO, Yorick and Ryze are the top champs in Dom. The only reason I don't ban them is that they are still relatively rare.

Yorick just wins bot lane vs the current meta of AP champs on bot, requiring regular ganks/help from teammates, allowing his team to control WM. As long as the Yorick reacts to the ganks correctly, he usually costs the enemy team too much time away from top. The only common bot champ that holds off Yorick is a (well played) Heimer, who can fight him to a stalemate. Until folks start putting counters bot, such as strong AD champs that can just fight and kill Yorick, he'll remain the King of Bot.

Ryze stomps a lot of other botlanes because he can get early tear + catalyst + AR/MR without hurting his damage. While he won't necessarily beat Yorick/Heim, Ryze handles ganks extremely well, either by using his snare to get away, or by flat out winning a 1v2. Then, when the lategame comes, Ryze can leave bot and just be the most powerful champ on the field.

By contrast, the other top tier champs have either been nerfed, no longer pwn the meta, or are losing to good counterplay (notice I still call these guys top tier, because they are):

Akali was hit by the considerable increase in magic damage in team comps. The rise in popularity of Cass, Kass, AP Shaco, Ryze, AP Poppy, on-hit Kog, etc... means that teams now get MR. Before, Akali would be the lone magic damage in a team of tanky DPS, meaning enemy champs were stacking armor, letting Akali run rampant. Now, most folks are going to grab a negatron, wit's end, or some other form of MR, and Akali suddenly can't vamp enough to stay alive.

Similarly, Jax no longer pwns the meta, because so many kite/burst champs have come into fashion. Ez, Kassadin, AP Poppy, WW, Ryze, etc... all handle Jax just fine. And Kog/Vayne with SotD and %HP dmg love a Jax that relies on his passives for survivability. Jax still crushes vs tanky DPS comps, but so does thornmail 4 AD bruisers is just not a viable team comp anymore.

Rammus is still a beast, but so few people build/play him right. Ninja capping sucks vs a smart team that just 3 caps and holds. Tank Rammus doesn't really work because his CDs are too long and the tanky DPS meta is gone. When built as a highly mobile tanky DPS, he's still awesome because he can just go crush face on squishies, but "Rammus Syndrome" keeps most folks from playing tanky DPS Rammus well (i.e. they just fling themselves in and die to uneven fights, rather than picking smart fights and running away as needed).

Both flavors of Shaco are awesome, no question, but AP Shaco has a lot of counterplay that players are learning, and AD Shaco is a LOT harder to play than Yorick/Ryze. I actually think AD Shaco is #3 in "best champ in Dom", but I so rarely see him played well as AD Shaco. Personally, if I want to win, I pick AD Shaco, Ryze or Yorick, but I played Shaco some on SR, so he's not new to me.

Poppy isn't a beat-all-comps champ. Like Akali, AP Poppy no longer benefits from the "enemies don't build MR" syndrome that made her so strong before. AD Poppy really suffers vs kiting champs, as her burst isn't high enough for the 1-2 times she gets to combo them before they kite her to death. Still awesome, but the meta shift has brought her down to earth.

Heimer is just not as overbearing as Yorick, and not as strong in 1v2 as Ryze. He's also not as easy to play as Yorick or Ryze, which just goes to show how easy Yorick and Ryze are to play

Long-term, I expect Yorick to diminish as folks find counterpicks to shut him down. Ryze will probably just stay amazing, as his strength really comes from the fact that early tear + catalyst gives him sustain AND DPS, while he also scales incredibly well into the endgame.

BTW, I'm posting this because I want the meta to shift so that these two aren't so easy to win with, meaning I can go back to my beloved Maokai


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Nekrogen

Senior Member

10-31-2011

No my Ryze! SHHHHHHHHHHH

To be fair though, if you aren't good with Ryze you can get stomped on pretty hard.
Yorick is spamspamspamspamspam oh look a kill *keeps pushing* lol.

Good post overall and I wholeheartedly agree with it... except the last bit :P


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Ulstan

Senior Member

10-31-2011

Good post. I also expect what is popular to shift. It's been ages since I've seen Rammus, for example, while initially he was banned or on every team.


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brainlizard

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10-31-2011

Thanks to you both for the kudos!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nekrogen View Post
No my Ryze! SHHHHHHHHHHH
Haha! You're the biggest Ryze spoiler on these boards It was your guide that clued me into him as the bot laner. I'd been going top with mixed results.

Quote:
To be fair though, if you aren't good with Ryze you can get stomped on pretty hard.
Yeah, I've seen some failed Ryze players. Personally, I take exhaust/promote and blow both on the very first wave just to be sure I push my opponent off the relic. I am more susceptible to ganks than I would be with flash, though.

Some folks also seem to fail at early item prioritization. Catalyst, chain vest, and negatron cloak all fit into his core, and prioritizing those correctly is hugely helpful.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ulstan View Post
I also expect what is popular to shift. It's been ages since I've seen Rammus, for example, while initially he was banned or on every team.
Rammus has to build according to the enemy team, which a lot of players aren't good at doing, so I see failed Rammus builds a lot of the time. You need to be efficient with your tank items so you can also get significant DPS built in.


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Stimuz

Senior Member

10-31-2011

Ryze bot can be dealt with in the same way as Soraka bot. Just have a roaming defender like shaco/eve/rammus/twitch/irelia/TF/talon ect. gank bot every time they extend past their side so their late game takes them a lot longer to reach.


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Psi21

Senior Member

10-31-2011

Ryze really isn't that good.

Akali yes...

AP Shaco ... yes

Jax... yes

Yorick... sure

Rammus...yes

Ryze... no ... he kills one person and the next kills him.... QWQEQ doesn't really cut it after a while or late game. Dominion is about hyper carries and all the MR, HP and armor isn't really going to make much of a difference to those hyper carries


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RealWolf M

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Senior Member

10-31-2011

lol @ psi

You do realise Ryze is a lategame carry correct? One of his biggest weaknesses in SR is that he is such a lategame carry, and requires so much farm to get there.

QWQEQ doesn't realy cut it? What about QWQEQRQWQEQ, considering that after that combo he can just juke for half a second and go back into a qwqeq, while being incredibly tanky.


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Squidget

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10-31-2011

This guy knows what he's talking about. If you want to win games pick one of those champs.

I'd add Kog'Maw to your list, especially now that some of the tanky-DPS is dying down a bit. He needs a bit of peel early on, but later the On-Hit build just wrecks everyone.

Blitzcrank also really stands out, but he needs reliable damage on the team to really work well. I've found it almost impossible to lose a game duo queuing as Kog'Maw + Blitzcrank.


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Elealar

Senior Member

10-31-2011

I don't think Ryze is really all that dominant. If you play well, most of the strong laners can fare alright against him; Cassiopeia, Brand, Karthus, Anivia, you know the drill. He scales well into lategame, of course, and he does hurt but he still has far less burst than a Mage (though more constant damage than most; Cassiopeia and Karthus do beat him in damage over time) but is tanky too (though getting Health on him is considerably difficult and really cuts into his tankiness). He only gains small returns from the AP on WotA and Voidstaff though which does hurt him since he generally often wants at least one or the other.


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brainlizard

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10-31-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stimuz View Post
Ryze bot can be dealt with in the same way as Soraka bot. Just have a roaming defender like shaco/eve/rammus/twitch/irelia/TF/talon ect. gank bot every time they extend past their side so their late game takes them a lot longer to reach.
Ryze handles constant gank pressure very, very well. That's why he's better than heimer. Of course a dedicated second bot will beat him, but if he's good, he can make it take longer than the 4v3 going on top.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Psi21 View Post
Ryze... no ... he kills one person and the next kills him.... QWQEQ doesn't really cut it after a while or late game. Dominion is about hyper carries and all the MR, HP and armor isn't really going to make much of a difference to those hyper carries
First, he goes bot lane because he's much better in small fights than large fights.

Second, his combo is strong all game long. I'm not sure what you mean there. Ryze is at WW level in terms of lategame sustain.

Finally, HP/MR/AR makes all the difference vs hyper carries, especially those that rely heavily on lifesteal/spell vamp.